Posted: 04/21/2011 at 12:43pm | IP Logged

Lonnie,

This is not about a church meetings or home group. It is about relationship and trust between people. It is hard to form relationhsip with those who keep themselves at bay with thier doctrines and understandings and judge others based upon differing understadnings.

It takes WORK and willingness to simply relate and put aside personal doctrines, offenses, and criticism to get to know people. I am determinded to build relationships and am done trying to build anything else.

Kris 

Posted: 04/21/2011 at 1:24pm | IP Logged

Kris,

OK, not what I expected but let me probe then.  Are you saying that you want to practice ultimate tolerance in these relationships you try to build?  It would be nice to be able to trust people but Christ trusted no man for He knew what is in man.  Don't you think that His pattern might be cautionary for us?

Bear with me here if you will for I know we each have a great responsibility in relationships.

Lon

Posted: 04/21/2011 at 2:10pm | IP Logged

Kris, Jeffery,

Just so you understand, except for a couple of times of very short duration, I have not been part of the church scene since 1978.  I departed the world of organized religion for a very small group, all living in one large house, where we sought a greater understanding of the Kingdom than was presented to us in the church setting.  What the Lord taught us in the eight years of that situation will soon be of great value to all seeking His Kingdom and righteousness. 

Jeffery, I know the doctrines of this site and between us I do not want them to be an issue but to me I do not see the purpose of reiterating them.  Relationship is more important than any work or doctrine and for Kingdom principles to become reality among men many things have to be worked out between men in practice.

So can we relate around the Lord and His kingdom principles in this thread?  It could be beneficial for all who follow it.

Lon 

Posted: 04/21/2011 at 5:02pm | IP Logged

Kris,

OK, we do have a stated common ground.....hearts for God, seeking Him to manifest His glory at whatever personal cost necessary.  Agreed?

And in relating in humility we must also relate in honesty.  What is humility....one author said "Humility is nothing more than agreeing with the truth."

With that said I want to step into the realm of absolute honesty between us.  This can be an example of how two men who seek the life of Christ in us can work out apparent differences.   You've been reading my posts I know and we have had a short exchange by email.  There was some tension there admittedly.

Where I can I like to use the words of Christ to guide me.  He said that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.  Above you mention "criticizing and judging everything not like you"  Did you mean me specifically for if you did please say so for I like not to leave anything to supposition.  Things like that will not offend me.  I really don't have anything to impress anyone with anyway.  If it were not for the Spirit of the Lord in me I would have no worth....nada, zero, zilch.  OK?

I turn this conversation back to you and eagerly await your response.

Lon

Posted: 04/21/2011 at 5:47pm | IP Logged

Kriston Couchey wrote: Complete In Relationship   WE ARE FAMILY My part simply is a single part of a whole that when brought together with others in the family of our Father forms a clearer, more complete expression of Christ. I have operated for too long "on my own", and have seen how the lack of community (common unity) has kept me from receiving and apprehending more fully the Christ life I am called to. Maturity is about growth. We must recognize that spiritually growth is about receiving what we have not known. It is important to know that what others may have is NOT what we have. Fullness of understanding and life is available in God ordained and established relationships. To be sure, there is deception and falseness that all of us have to come out of, but Father has a way of removing those blinders in love. If you cling to knowledge that may be even true at the expense of relationship, you can miss the TRUTH Himself. His desire is that in unity we express the fullness of who He is in completeness as His family on earth. In His Love Kriston Couchey http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/

YES AMEN KRIS!!!

Posted: 04/21/2011 at 10:27pm | IP Logged

Kris,

My wife Jill and I have been revealed the same thing about God ordained and established relationships. It is hard work to lay aside the old way of relating through theological and doctrinal comparisons and transforming to just building love and relationships with the Body who God directs us to attach to. Unity in the Spirit has to have intimacy. That's really new territory for a lot of people. Thank you for sharing! It is awesome confirmation for us. Hearing and seeing is much different than listening and looking and that is our task at hand: To do all things only as directed by the Spirit.

Thanks again for your obedience that led to our confirmation.

Love you brother,

Jim & Jill

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 6:02am | IP Logged

Jim Broaddus wrote: Unity in the Spirit has to have intimacy.

.

There is huge truth within this statement.  I wish I had some time to spend on that today.  Maybe later.   

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 6:55am | IP Logged

I love this, people being real with each other I believe that is a true component of building relationships in the Body of Christ just letting our walls down and being real with each other.  Being mature enough to be able to say what we believe, what's on our hearts and minds.  After all, The Lord knows our hearts and He is the only one that really matters.  It is time to be a real family!  Share our joys, our victories, our accomplishments, our revelations, our hurts, our disappointments, our misunderstandings, our frustrations, our need for each other...it is truly beautiful and pleasing to The Father I'm sure.

Love in Christ to all of you! 

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 8:05am | IP Logged

Hi all,

Thanx for the encouragement! God is good and is speaking clealry about this issue to many. Let everything be established by the mouth of 2 or 3 witneses. We need to be heaing the witness of the Spirit. It is importnat to seek to walk in the revealed will of god as He moves upon his Ekklesia.

Someone shared with me something that changed my perspective on relationships.

He compared people to small isolated islands in which there was little commerce between Islands. There is no way to carry weighty things between islands aprt from building bridges. The greater the bridge, the more that can be carried accross the bridge.

It is the same in the kingdom, The bridge is relationships of love and trust. The wieghty things are truth. We cannot expect in God ordained relationhsip to simply bring corection and truth to our brother apart from building intimacy and relationship. This i believe is a kingdom principle as it relates to the body.

There is a time for warnings and speaking truth in situations where someones life is in danger. But as it relates to those with a pure heart and simply needing growth and understanding we have, we can KILL them with truth and even embitter them with offense as we make doctrine and understadning more valuble then the person themselves.

Here is a saying that I have come up with with something I have done in the past:

I regret the times God sent me with the sword of truth to cut loose the chains of a bound man, and I returned to present Him thier severed head. ~Kriston Couchey~

Blessings

Kris

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 9:28am | IP Logged

Dave,

Good insight.  Yes, some truth is absolute and must be honored.  Let us seek the Lord as to what that might be.

It behooves us to be teachable!!!!  It is imperative that we be teachable!!!  I can't say it enough we must seek the truth, the revelation the Lord has for us.  We must be delivered of all preconceptions, opinions, traditions, prejudices....how many more are there?  Only God has the truth we need and we so frequently fail to grasp those truths because we already think we have the truth, "truth" we obtained in our own power feasting of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 

Is our relationship with Father so meek, so humble, that He can tell us anything and we can receive it?  Are we first so conditioned by His discipline and chastisement that we know His voice with clarity and certainty?

If we don't have such a relationship with Him what is standing in the way?  The easy answer is the heart, what are our motives and intents, why do we "want" God in the first place.  In reality we can't even discern the heart within us.  God has a remedy for that condition....

First we must be humble before Him, agree with the truth He presents to us...

Jer 17:9-10

9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
10 "I, the LORD, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give to each man according to his ways,
According to the results of his deeds.
NASU

Secondly He requires our cooperation in relationship with Him....

Isa 1:18-20

"Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the LORD,
" Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
19 " If you consent and obey,
You will eat the best of the land;
20 "But if you refuse and rebel,
You will be devoured by the sword."
Truly, the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
NASU

We need to understand that these are ultimate truths and they apply through all the ages.  Man has not gotten better over time, only worse and these concepts apply to us more today than ever before.  Christ's blood covers us so that Father can work with us to mature and perfect us but if we do not cooperate with His ministrations then what hope have we?  Certainly, if we are granted eternal life, our reward will be nothing compared to the rewards for the faithful who have grown into the fulness of the stature of His Son.

Relationship with God takes precedent over any other, even including our brothers.  If we aren't in proper order with God how can we be in order with our brother?  Of course the value in brotherly relationships now is revealed in that brothers who might be in order with God in relationship will be able to discern our disorder and help restore us.  However, we must be humble and teachable to receive our brothers' counsel.

These are a small few of the things Father has taught me in my walk with Him. 

What is really in our hearts brothers and sisters?  Have we let God take a peek and report back to us on His findings?

Dave, thanks for the springboard.  I wasn't sure how I was going to respond at this juncture.  Since I invited Kriston (and anyone who has a view or thought please join in) to dialogue with me I wanted to bring something of merit.  Your participation certainly is valueable.

Lon

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 10:29am | IP Logged

Tina,

No one said that you weren't doing all that but does it hurt to take another look, probe a little deeper, dig out a little more?  All the dross doesn't go in one firing.  And I cannot yet report that the firings are finished and I have been diligently seeking His righteousness since '78.

Are you threatened by what I am saying?  You seem defensive.  If you think that am claiming that I am "right" I am only telling of the path that He took me down on the way to spiritual maturity.  His principles are the same for all of us, the path He takes us down is unique to the individual.

If this is personal to you lets talk about it offline.  Father is dealing with me now about not taking personal issues public.  I have erred in that and for one I owe Dave Spencer an apology for a past offence. 

(Did you get that Dave?)

Tina, it sounds like you might have something that you want to air.  Do it here, email me, however. Thanks.

Dave, I just saw your latest post....What you speak of, all being equal before the Lord and one another, is on Father's agenda as many here know.  It is happening and coming soon to a theater near you. 

One more thing...church is what it is because there a those who love the pre-eminence and those who are content to follow.  That can't be in the coming Kingdom of God.

Lon

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 10:42am | IP Logged

Dave,

You were?  I did not see that, I sensed nothing.  Oh, maybe you are talking about the time of the "incident."  I've forgotten anything you said, now maybe I can forget what I said.

Yes, it is a new day....that gives those Holy Spirit chills.

Blessings my brother.

Lon

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 10:45am | IP Logged

Tina,

What do you mean here?  What is the cart and what is the horse?  Do you mean in this thread or in our general Christian practices?

Tina, I just reread your last.....I can be slow on the uptake.  I gotcha now.

Dave Larsen, nice to see you here too.

(I am SOOOO enjoying this.  People to talk with!!!  It probably couldn't happen for us until now.)

Lon

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 10:46am | IP Logged

I have been out of church myself for over a decade. I left because i was told to leave by Father. In that time I, like many of you, have received understanding and revelation of God's purposes and plans for his people to be an expression of Him, an expression that requires death to self and it's ways.

I agree completely with your statement Lonnie about the state of men's hearts.  The question I have then is this, AS men with wicked hearts, who is in the place of making a judgment upon the heart of another and deciding when one is beyond hope and needs to be rejected?

I don't fellowship with those in the organized church, not because I have rejected them, but because they have rejected me by a judgment upon the state of my heart. And it is unprofitable to continue to try relate to these who have already written me off as deceived and rebellious.

Another reason I do not partake of Babylon is I refuse to build what God is NOT building. One thing I have from the Lord, and have had to make decisions by it., "you cannot build what they build because it is not Me!" I purpose to not build what men build, and when they are upset about my not playing with their agenda they reject me. And many of you have experienced the same thing. 

God is building CHRIST in people, not a system or hierarchy. The question then comes to me, What is it in ME that must die so that what is rejected by people is Christ and not simply my own self preservation or self deluded pride or offense that cuts others off. 

I, ME, KRIS,  have been guilty of this MIXED MOTIVE IN MY DECEITFUL HEART even recently, so has it worked for me to make judgments upon the hearts of others?  NO!

Jesus said "I DO NOT JUDGE YOU, it the words I speak that will judge you." Let the truth that is in you be the judge, you are not the judge of another's heart.

There have also been times when i have been wrong in the way I have handled people on openheaven, I ask forgiveness for those times.  

That being said, many of the times I have offended others has been in the interest of Preserving a place where people are free from being personally attacked, judged, and accused for being in a place of immaturity or lack of understanding. Have we not all wanted that? I have been hardest on those who claim to be mature and "teachers" of others.

Again, i ask forgiveness for times i have wrongly judged or accused anyone here.  

So then, what is the answer? Speaking the Truth in love and attempting to maintain the bond of Peace in the Holy Spirit in relationship. I say lets begin to start relating now, the desert times are DONE, it's time to start finding love and relationship to those who are willing to try and make an effort to simply get to know us. Thousands have already rejected us, but what about those willing to see Christ in us and give it a go? I am wiling to se Chrsit in you, are you willing to see Christ in me?

Kris

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 11:10am | IP Logged

Kris and all,

Certainly something holy is happening at this very moment.  Honestly I am almost overwhelmed by Holy Spirit's presence.

"The question I have then is this, AS men with wicked hearts, who is in the place of making a judgment upon the heart of another and deciding when one is beyond hope and needs to be rejected?"

As a man with a wicked heart I would say none of us.  I would say, at this time anyway, leave that sort of thing in the hands Holy Spirit and give Him a chance to implement reconciliation as He sees fit.  I know one who is of the opinion that, as love and righteousness grows in the midst of believers, those opposing God will have no option but to repent or get out of Dodge.  I am certainly willing to test that theory.  Takes all the pressure off of us doesn't it?

Kris, I am humbled by your confessions and honesty.  Thank you so much.

Lon

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 11:26am | IP Logged

Kris said../

"..but what about those willing to see Christ in us and give it a go? I am willing to see Christ in you, are you willing to see Christ in me?"

I understand "Christ in you/me" in this context.  Do we have a choice, the bunch of rejected misfits that we are?  Of course we are willing.

Lon

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 12:25pm | IP Logged

Thank GOD His Grace is beyond ...our understanding-

Cuz right now if I was God, many would have been turned to stone do to the back stabs or worse I have had.

Ohhh, to be able to see people through His eyes NOT ours. Open our Eyes Lord that we too will be slow to Judge- Ahhhh

Great Grace Lord- Thanks for bearing long with Us...

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 3:06pm | IP Logged

Humbling...yes..

 Thank you...Bless you Kris!!

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 4:26pm | IP Logged

Its tickles me how answers to the passing questions of our minds come.  Here is one....

""The Law DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU does not apply to Christians, since it was spoken to Jews before Jesus died on the Cross.  No, He tells us to LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU.  That is HIGHER than the "golden rule" (the Golden rule is to love others AS yourself.  The way Jesus loved us is that He loved us MORE than Himself, since He died for us)""

I knew the "golden rule" wasn't enough for us but never bothered to reason this through. 

There is a higher rule....Jeffery thank you for pointing that out.

Lon

Posted: 04/22/2011 at 5:54pm | IP Logged

I wrote this poem the day I rededicated my life to Jesus after living in the world for 35 years. It just came out of me that day in 5 min. time. Have been reading this thread and it made me think of this...Lyle

EPIPHANY OF AGAPE LOVE  

I had an EPIPHANY the other day.

The LORD said to me,

AGAPE LOVE is the way!

You can have money and such.

But the love of the LORD,

It can not touch!

I had an EPIPHANY the other day,

The LORD said to me.

AGAPE LOVE is the way!

You can have the things of man,

But bring you to the LORD it won’t.

Try all you can.

I had an EPIPHANY the other day,

The LORD said to me.

AGAPE LOVE is the way!

Believe he died on the CROSS,

It will bring you to the LORD.

Worldly things your only loss.

I had an EPIPHANY the other day,

The LORD said to me.

AGAPE LOVE is the way!

He shed his blood for you and me.

Believe it son.

He will set you free!

I had an EPIPHANY the other day,

The LORD said to me.

AGAPE LOVE is the way!

Believe he cleansed your sin,

With all of your heart.

The devil he can’t win!

I had an EPIPHANY the other day,

The LORD said to me.

AGAPE LOVE is the way!

Agape is pronounced "ah-GAH'-pay".  It is a Greek word.  Found first in the biblical New Testament, agape expresses the spiritual, not physical, love of God for his people.   It is an unconditional love and concern for others.  Agape is a love that accepts everyone for who they are. This is the same love that God expressed for us through the death of Jesus Christ, His Son (1 John 4:9, 10).   It is a selfless love.  Everyone has capacity for agape love.

Posted: 04/23/2011 at 2:35pm | IP Logged

A father's love will also take you to the woodshed.

So will our heavenly Father's love chasten and scourge sons.

Heb 12:6  For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."

Ron

Posted: 04/23/2011 at 3:55pm | IP Logged

YES!!!

Posted: 04/25/2011 at 2:50pm | IP Logged

Here we go:

Simply put, the main reason we speak when God is not truly speaking is because we are looking for recognition and/or attention, or we have a driving need to try to fix someone out of our flesh.  Either of these reasons makeup fleshly words and mixture.  Why is this?  The simple answer is we are not complete.  We still have unresolved hurts and wounds. 

This is where we can tie into this thread complete in relationships. 

I will now speak solely about myself and what God is doing with me.  Hopefully this may help someone else. 

We are completed in relationships, but in relationship(s) with who?  While cutting the grass today, after a wonderful morning conversation with Kriston, I realized through the Father talking with me, that my path points me back to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  I keep repeatedly putting the cart before the horse.  First things first.  Everytime I attempt to find completeness in relationships with others, I revert back to attempting to feed the hurts and wounds the Lord is still dealing with through attention seeking, recognition seeking, and even trying to fix people by being God for them.  Where one may need to be completed in their walk through relationships with others, the Lord keeps calling me back to solely to Him.  Kristons teaching and revelations are excellent on this thread, however, I applied them wrongly to my own personal walk with the Lord. 

I don't know about anyone else, but this has been a long and arduous process.  No, these hurts and wounds with the attaching sins and demonic entities have taken much time to be cut out, burnt off and eradicated.  Yes, we know we have the righteousness of God by faith, but sanctification is a process. 

Now back to completeness in relationships.  This is to be taken more on the lines of transparency than a true teaching.  If teaching can be derived from it so be it.  Because of my issues with my earthly father and other father figures in my life, I have continued to find a need for recognition and attention.  I realized today that I began to post on this website yesterday primarily out of the need for recognition and attention.  This is why the Lord keeps calling me back to the Father.  As we near completeness, we truly should need no recognition because we (self) should be dying.  If we recall, there was only one time (if I'm not mistaken) that the Father said to the Son, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."  The Lord lived to please the Father, always has, always will, so should we.  Everything he did for others first was for the Father, and then out of the Fathers love for others, not out of a need for recognition or attention.  And surely not out of a need to secure material provision, i.e. money, etc. etc. etc.

So what is being said here?  Where I know that I will receive, as will my wife, as we are of one mind, heart, and flesh in the Lord, completeness through the Father and Him alone, another may be directed to receive completeness in relationship with others.  I'm not saying that I am an island unto myself, the Lord has called my wife and I solely unto Himself.  While showering, after yardwork, the Lord directed me to Colossians 2: 9-10. 9: For in Him dwells all the fullness of  the God head bodily; 10: And you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. 

So to sum all of this up, we have mixture in the words that we speak from the Lord because we are not complete in Him.  There still lies within us possibly unresolved bitterness, rejection, i.e. pride.  And we try to self medicate our hurts and wounds through a need for recognition, attention, and even trying to play God for others.  It may not be necessary for everyone to go back to every trauma or abuse received or given to and by us from the womb forward, but the Lord chose to do so with me, maybe for teaching purposes down the road.  But confession, at least for me is largely over, however, the ongoing purging continues from the ravages of a lifetime of hurts, wounds and sinful responses. 

If one says that they are already healed, complete, sinfree, and whole, then I would ask these questions.  1.  Are you walking in consistent demonstrations of the power of God?  2.  Are your words that you give forth from the Lord pure?  3.  Are you walking in divine health?  4.  Are you walking consistently in the nine fruits of the spirit?  5.  Are all four aspects of the four living creatures operating readily through you when the Holy Spirit desires to call them forth, the eagle, the lamb, the lion, and the man?  And most importantly 6.  Are your motivations and intent moved by pure agape love?  That is where we are headed folks, that is what it means to be without spot or wrinkle.  No longer do we live but Christ lives in us, not through us, but in us.  Self will be dead. 

Once again, FOR IN HIM DWELLS ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GOD HEAD BODILY, AND YOU ARE COMPLETE IN HIM WHO IS THE HEAD OF ALL PRINCIPALITY AND POWER.

P.S. Bob and Tina

This is the best I can do at this time in offering why there is such mixture in the body, it all boils down to completeness leading to fullness.  Actually the second we hit completeness, (mind, will, and emotions healed  in complete harmony with the Father and the Son), I believe we will be walking in fullness at that very moment.  Praise be to the Lord God this will be when the process is over!  Victory in Jesus.

Posted: 04/25/2011 at 3:00pm | IP Logged

Addendum:

Incompleteness and mixture is also why we can't see Christ in others consistently.  We see by the flesh and not by the spirit, because Christ has not been birthed in us.

Posted: 04/25/2011 at 7:44pm | IP Logged

Tina,

Thank you for the positive feedback.  And yes, I like what Oswald Chambers says about revelation and wisdom from the Lord-it must be lived and die in us and be resurected by Christ for us to walk in the authority of any revelation. 

Bob

Actually, I had the mother and father issues pretty close to verbatim as you described.  The Lord showed me it was the Ahab/Jesabell scenario meaning the mother carried the authority and the father allowed her to usurp it witchcraft pure and simple. 

Forgiveness has been wrought, however, the consequences from the abuse and neglect is still being purged along with my sinful reactions. 

We have to remember that it is the parents job to keep the child covered.  The enemy can even inflict chemical imbalances through affliction to a child in the womb if that child is not covered properly by the father and mother. 

I like what you said about the truths buried therein will be the truths that set you free.  Our weaknesses become our very strengths as the Lord deals with them.  We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony.

I also left out the issue of speaking out of mixture influenced by false doctrines and teachings.  For me, these have fell off little by little close to the same pace as my making my self available to the Lord in dealing with the long standing hurts and wounds.  That's really neat. 

Also, another area that can influence the mixture that we may speak out of can be the early influences from our childhood spiritual/religious leaders.  For example:  1.  My childhood pastor, from as early as I can remember, leaned toward the somewhat stern judgement of God side.  I truly believe I was afraid of him as I was my earthly father and therefore out of that fear I judged them both and that judgement/bitterness fell back on me and for the longest in my walk with the Lord I have leaned somewhat towards the judgemental.  2.  In contrast, my older brother sat under a very love of God oriented pastor.  And he to this day sees God more as a God of only love and has difficulty believing that God judges anybody or anything on some level.  My brother and I had the same hurts and wounds but while I masked over with predominantly anger, he masked over with predominantly that everybody deserves a free ride/no consequences for sin.  He even has a hard time seeing what sin is.  Not quite a flower child perverse love everybody but more like God is love and that's all God is.  We know that God is preiminently love along with wisdom, power, judgement, etc. etc. So there you go, more to think about.

Thanks and grace

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 9:23am | IP Logged

Bob:

I appreciate your response.  Great deliverance and inner healing questionaire/checklist.  The answer to everyone of those is yes, yes, yes, and yes.  Been through all of that.  The snowball gets bigger as it rolls down the hill.  The victim/martyr personality, generational curses were even more magnified in me.  I was way more demonized and corrupted than my parents. 

Here's why:  Hard drug use, whoremongering, violence, thirteen trips to jail, lost jobs-too numerous to list, cocaine dealing, and so on, used by me and my captivity to the kingdom of darkness along with unknowingly opening the door to occultic spirits through my idolization of certain hard rock bands.  Not to mention the occultic spirits that resulted due to the drugs.  I even awakened the Koundalini spirit in myself through lets estimate somewhere between 25 to 50 give or take LSD trips.  Physical abuse to women, due to judgements against my mother.  Man, I could go on and on preaching and teaching about deliverance and inner healing, the Lord has shown much.

So, I have done everything that you questioned. Let me try to explain what the Lord has been and is still doing with me even in the present. 

Forgiveness is a process.  You know this, you've demonstrated the awareness.  The Holy Spirit quickens the Word at his divine timing by the Father as we can receive it (only He knows when the timing is right) to shine His light, love and truth on the dark areas of our souls.  I have even had to lie in a bed during these seven to eight years of going through this process as the Holy Spirit cut out the demons that had infested me through my years of walking in the kingdom of darkness.  Most of them have even rended and teared as they have been ripped out of me. 

Some would say why didn't you or the Lord or somebody simply cast them out?  Here's what the Lord has shown me.

In 2002 my wife and I were out riding on the way for an outing and the Lord spoke.  He said "You are going where no man has gone before".  What we have come to see and believe is that what the body or should I more accurately say, the positioned remnant of Christ is about to receive we know that not even the apostles of old received.  Without spot or wrinkle, rapture ready, whatever that means; lets not get into a discussion about all the differing rapture theologies.  My wife and I know that we have a good fragment of the way it may play out, but we are quick to say we sure don't know all the answers.

So I say all of that to say, that the curse has been reversed but the Lord has been bringing the reversing about in us in His timing.  Since 2003, it's like this deliverance and inner healing has been on auto pilot.  I can sense, if I will only yield at a given time to the Spirit, to the days that I can be active and to the days I need to simply be still, lie in a bed while the Lord cuts on me.  Now my wife doesn't seem to have to lay still like I do somedays, due to the intense severity of demonization that I have had.  Also, He has shown me that as He purges all of this out, He is literally burning these demons up and burning out the puss of corruption.  Literally altering our DNA from corruptable to incorruptable in the process.  This time these demons will not come back  because the old foundational garbage that they dwelled in is being burned up.  An old Morning Star song is coming to mind as I dictate this to my wife, "Wash us with the spirit of burning, let your beautiful fruit shine forth, and everyone left in Zion will be called Holy forever more.  Come let us go up to the mountain, come let us go up to the Lord, come let us go up to the mountain, He will teach us His ways." 

So you were on target, the remaining vestages of unworthiness are primarily in how I seen myself and how the Father sees me.  We are way down the road in this process.  The end of the tunnel is in sight. 

So to finish, I did receive your e-mail.  Here's my thoughts.  Let's continue, unless otherwise directed, to be transparent and air this out as brothers here on the open forum.  This is what, transparency is all about.  This is what it means to be complete in relationships.  At least at some level.  At this juncture we could even tie in the Lord's offering through Kriston and what He offered me, and bridge them to a fashion. 

We are completed in relationships with each other in the fashion of being jointly fit together as stated by Paul in Ephesians, but ultimately we are completed in Him, which is the Head of all principality and power.  In other words, His Head is becoming our head and His Heart is becoming our heart as we yield to the process of sanctification through daily abiding and obedience.  And for my wife and I, abiding has solely meant staying on the surgery table as He completes this most painful work. 

Now if I may, let me make a statement, which could be considered a mild rebuke, to the ones who say "just get over it."  You do not seem to be one of them.  This stuff is meat. 

How many years did it take Joseph in the prison "dungeon" to complete his preparation?  Look at Moses, look at Paul, even look at Jesus.  We have 14, 40, 14, 30 years respectively.  And we know outside of the Lord, especially the Old Covenant Guys, no one in the history of God's children have gone through the depth of preparation that we are going through.  I would caution anyone that says "Just get over it and get out there and do the work of the ministry," without going through this process may be subject to future falls.  We do not want to be one of the ones the Lord has to say "Depart from Me I never knew you."  How many men of God in prominent positions have we seen fall that got up off of the prepatory altar too soon.  Or even operating in offices they were never called to operate in.  But that is for another topic, time, and place.

Actually, I sense the Lord keeping us supernaturally hemmed in.   In 2008, on the day of  the November 2 Presidential election, the Lord led me to ride my (His) motorcycle out to a place here in Alabama called Horsepens 40.  Like so much of the time after the fact (we are kind of slow, or dull of percetion as you well know) I saw what He was saying through the trip.  The ones that are truly yielding to this preparatory process, have been like horses in a pen, straining at the stalls, but He keeps us hemmed in until He is finished.  I'm hoping the number 40, not only represents another time of testing/purging from 11/2/08, but also represents 40 literal months, give or take, which would carry us to sometime in 2012.  Twelve is the number for divine government (Headship) and also another number for completeness along with seven.  But let's not get into date setting.  Laugh  I am secure with the (horses in a stall)  prophetic impression, but less secure with putting a whole lot of time constraints on the number forty.  Hopeful, but you know what I mean. 

I know this was long and lengthy, however, I truly hope that it was helpful and offered clarity for some.  And this was not meant to be seen as a private exchange between Bob and I.  May anyone that the Lord chooses to let glean from this, do so. 

Love and grace,

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 10:29am | IP Logged

Wow!! good stuff. It seems that there are truly a remnant who have been and are going through the fire, as I am. It has not been the same path, but fire non the less, and that fire is not going out, it is increasing, and i truly am convinced that we are going down a path where we have never been before, but HE knows the way. I don't understand how it all will work, but i aggree with you Joel, Healing comes from Father in His timing and way.  

I was told by Father that I would recieve further healing of things in my life as I entered into relationship with others and as i am deliverd from an adversarial spirit. The Lord gave me a prophetic word some time ago that went like this...

"If you do away with the yoke of oppression, with the pointing finger and malicious talk, and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday."

He is our deliverer, and He is raising us up to be deliverers AS HE IS AND AS HIM! Christ is emerging to bring deliverance to the world, but He is emerging in US! Our hands and feet are Him to others. This is not just a nice analogy it is fact. This is the glory as sons He is bringing us into. But, we have been so wounded and hurt we sometimes cannot see outside our own needs and act out of our needs with others, He is healing that, and i am convinced that this is the beggining of another measure of healing that comes through being transparent and vulnerable in relationship. HE IS THE HEALER, HE IS THE DELIVERER, and i am ready to see His word to me come to pass that as i come into relationhip with others that he appoints as brothers and sisters, there is coming a further healing that will  bring completion.

We are complete in Him, and we are also ONE IN HIM with others. There is coming a place of losing distinction as to what is Him and us as we become ONE with Him. When we are one with Him we are also one with others. Thier strengths and grace are available to us in relationship. It is in effect HIM that we recive in others!

Can we see and recieve Christ (in reality) in others?

Bless God!!

Kris 

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 11:02am | IP Logged

Tina:

All I can say is simply a big THANK YOU.  I sense your identification, that is refreshing.  I don't know how many times I have said to my wife "I feel like Elijah," but then I continue and say to her, "Joel (talking to myself to her) the Lord has seven thousand others."

Bob:

Yes if done too quickly it would have literally destroyed us.  I have pointed out to myself and others many times how the Lord would only drive out the "ites" in the Promised Land only as fast as He would allow.  He knew that was the only way they could survive and hold the land.  The same principle applies within us.  And yes, public crucifixion is the way.  The Lord suffered "outside the camp,"  which represents organized religion, but still suffered publicly.  Man, transparency is good, especially when your pearls aren't trampled by swine.  Needless to say, that's why we need to be sure we are speaking to the right people.  This is good stuff. 

Kriston:

It truly seems that the perspectives from the Lord to you and to me on "Complete in  relationships" have jointly fit together, as have we. 

After pondering your portion and combined with my portion, we can see how fullness comes about.  Today, I sense a new willingness within me, from just what has transpired on this website the last few days, to enter deeper into relationships with others. 

However, at some point my wife and I believe that the Glory will burst forth like a mighty rushing river from within us, when all hinderances and blockages are removed.  A "then God suddenly" moment in time, Kairos moment, if you will.  Another episode of the "mighty rushing wind." 

I have always deep down inside, underneath all the gump and junk hindering us, truly enjoyed corporateness.  However, due to the nature of the type of walk the Lord has called my wife and I to, I still kind of hope that on an individual level a "then God suddenly moment" happens for my wife and I, with just her and I with the Lord on a mountain or out in the woods or in our home.  However, with the Lord's sense of humor and knowing that He knows best, He will probably choose to do it with us in a room full of other Bride candidates.  That is up to Him, obviously.  I am aware that that desire to have it occur this way stems from the lack of corporateness due to the underlying issues of rejection that are being resolved in Christ through relationships with others and private time with the Lord.

I suppose this comes from also a romantic picturing of a Moses like Mt Sinai encounter with the Lord, or something.  You gotta laugh with me here if you hear my heart, which I'm sure you will.

Man, our two respective perceptions of "Complete in relationships" truly have been bridged together.  After some degree of work I must add. 

Love and grace to all

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 12:47pm | IP Logged

Hey Tina,

         Who irritates you the most on t his website or in general? I know,lets do some do some ''finger pointing and malicious talk''------- uh oh ,the old wineskin just reared its old man ugly head.Just kidding,of course.I hope this website has a sense of humour or I want be long for this here camp.

         On a serious note,''finger pointing and malicious talk'' come largely from the root within us of self-condemnation/condemnation.This comprises a large portion of the RELIGIOUS spirit the LORD is cutting out of His Bride/Elect at this hour.This lies underneath the masks of recognition/attention-seeking,self-glorification.Man,is the LORD burning this outa wifey and me at this hour.

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 12:50pm | IP Logged

Joel, Bob, Tina, and others...Wow you guys are a treasure!! I am changed even this week with a differnet attiutde and perspective of just about everything. Could this be love??? LOL!!

Joel, one thing i see is that we all are being sent in our own anointing and own way from Him in power. I KNOW this from the Lord. But there is what I call the fellowship of apostles and prophets. Don't let the name scare you.

An apostle is one who is sent. This being sent could be as one who is an evangelist or a prophet, etc. But in the sending you are an apostle, "sent one". There comes a time when God sets us apart and "sends" (apostello) you whatever gifts you may function in.

I suppose there is a governmental aspect to that term for some, but God is raising a people to be sent BY HIM, not by man, man may agree with God's sending and affirm it, but we are all accountable and sent by God.

In that fellowship it is a brotherhood as it were, not limited by gender or race, but a commonality of purpose to bring the kingdom of God to earth. This requires a measure of working together in unity and helping in places where we see anothers stregths can be of help in our OWN places of authoritynad vice versa. I also see that as the early elders and apostles wrestled with doctrines and things that this fellowship works in communion, not in a heirchal sense of chain of command, with the Spirit of God in charge. 

Tina, that article from Rick blew my mind, I am gonna read it again...

Kris 

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 1:12pm | IP Logged

No, no, no,Tina,

         Lets try that again.I understood Ricks point about getting together with folks that are different and possibliy irritate us to jointly fit together with our gifts,to mature and so on.

         I was just playing with you.Think tongue in cheek.Now read my probably inappropriate little attempt at humour again----now like,sarcastically saying ''I know,letsget together and point the finger and maliciously talk about others---it was just a joke on my part.We are cool.You are cool.I like you.

       Think sarcastic stand-up comedy routine.Please forgive me.My family did laugh some an had kinda a warped sense of humour.

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 1:41pm | IP Logged

Yes----transparency can be r-i-s-k-y.But we made it thru that pretty well,didnt we?So sorry if I MADE YOU CRY.

      Now lets take this as a teaching moment for both of us.

     Sarcasm (which I offered)can originate from a perverse mocking spirit which was a problem in my family.It enters in as a cover-up or mask if you might say, to hide feelings of shame/condemnation.My wife and family members probably would have giggled rightly or wrongly at that little monster whereas you didnt know me well enough to know what was going on.Another words,they and we are use to the sarcasm.

     Im still being delivered from this particular mask or evil spirit.Also it may have struck you in a vulnerable place.

      Talk about being completed in relationships!When make the effort to work thru something we grow.

        Both Kristons reply and the one you posted by Rick Joyner were good and appropriate for this thread.REPOST IT,Lady Tina!

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 4:35pm | IP Logged

This was a heavy thread.I contributed to its heaviness to a large degree with transperency.I attempted to lighten it up by a little humour.Tina and I worked thru it.What else can we say?Us prophetic people are soooo serious most of the time.I am the chief of sinners in this regard.

However,lets learn how to move forward and even laugh at ourselves.

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 4:53pm | IP Logged

Kriston:

I agree with what you said about apostles and prophets coming together.  We know a fair amount about what it means to be a prophet.  However, I truly don't believe that we know all that it means to be an apostle and the associating apostolic gifting. 

One of my wife and I's mentors back in 2003 was praying for me and she shared the word "apostle."  Then she said "Do not let our present understanding of what it means to be an apostle limit you.  The Lord will explain and expand as time goes by." 

My wife and I have been led of the Lord over the past nine years to go into different regions of the country and do intercession, and occasionally He would show us what it meant to walk in apostolic authority in the spirit realm. 

There is much for all of us to still learn about the office of a true apostle, we believe that we have just scratched the surface. 

Love and grace

Posted: 04/26/2011 at 6:26pm | IP Logged

And yes,we surely need all fear and masking pride,the source of hardness of our hearts removed.This can be exposed in relationship if we dont run and hide from the exposure.Then it takes courage to confess to each other and to the FATHER and allow the Light of His Love to burn the garbage out.Then we inch forward further to self death and CHRIST living IN US until selfish self no longer lives.

We have all shown some courage and transparency on this.It may have been a clumsy but it still is COMMUNITY.

   Love and Grace