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THE GREAT PREPARATION

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Forum Name: VOICE OF PROPHECY - Prophetic Words
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URL: http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=22196
Printed Date: 01/17/2017 at 12:03pm


Topic: THE GREAT PREPARATION

Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Subject: THE GREAT PREPARATION
Date Posted: 05/27/2008 at 3:01pm

The Great Preparation

By Ron McGatlin

Many reading this were planted with the seed of faith in God many years ago. Some of us remember that in the period of time immediately after giving our lives to Christ Jesus and receiving Him as Savior and Lord, our lives were filled with faith.

It may have seemed easy for us to believe that God could and would do anything whether natural or supernatural by prayer in agreement with His will and our need. Excitement was high and faith alive though we knew so very little about Him or the Bible. Our experience with Him was fresh; our prayer times were full of life, and we loved feasting upon His word.

My heart saddens as I see mature adults who received their seed of a measure of faith many years ago and have since learned more about God, but their faith has not grown. Many seem to have less faith in the reality of the supernatural works of God than when the seed of faith was first planted many years ago.

Something is not right about this picture.

Faith is not meant to be dormant or growing pitifully little or even declining.

The seed of our measure of faith is to sprout and grow a fruitful tree of spiritual supernatural reality of the life and works of Jesus producing His kingdom lifestyle with us that flows out to the world.

An internal wall of division has developed between the written supernatural experiences recorded in the Bible and our practical awareness of life.

Some way the multitude of supernatural spiritual experiences recorded in the Bible have become to us like unreal stories of the past much like fairy tales. The people of faith in the Bible who experienced the supernatural have become like gods or fantasy super heros to us. In the real world of our day, their supernatural experiences seem very remote from us ordinary real people. We seem to have developed a subconscious belief syndrome of "that was then and this is now." The experience of the supernatural works of the Holy Spirit are not considered of great practical value in our lives of today. However, knowing the facts of the Bible and knowing about God, especially Jesus and the Father, is considered to be of great value, while the experience of life through the Holy Spirit is considered of only secondary importance at best.

Religion has caused us to move from the real experience of Christ Jesus and the Father by the Holy Spirit flowing supernatural spiritual life in and through us producing miraculous faith and works of God. Our faith has weakened, and in some, it has died because of a lack of real experiences of God in us by the Holy Spirit. We subconsciously think that the incredible supernatural spiritual experiences were for all those special people in the Bible, but we are only ordinary people.

Wake up! Mary the mother of Jesus was not a special daughter of an emperor or a goddess. She was an ordinary person much like you and me. All the disciples of Jesus in the first centuries were not super people or something special they were real and ordinary men and women of no special endowment until the Holy Spirit came upon them and brought the Spirit of Christ Jesus to live in them. You and I are not any different. Except, possibly because we have been poisoned by false religious teachings and trained by ungodly experiences in the world, we have hardened our hearts with doctrinal rocks and thorns of this life which have filled our lives and damaged or destroyed our faith in the supernatural reality of the real kingdom of God.

Consider all the works of the Holy Spirit upon or within ordinary people throughout the Bible. We would not have anything of God without the work of the Holy Spirit. There are over http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=21890&a mp;PN=1&TPN=1 - 150 supernatural experiences of the work of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Almost every chapter in the Old Testament records supernatural works of the Spirit experienced in the same world we live in. Who would Abraham have been and what would he have done without an experience from God? Who would Moses have been without almost continually experiencing supernatural reality with God from the burning bush to the parting of the Red Sea and the Mountain that burned with fire? Who would Elijah have been without supernatural experiences with God? All through the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came upon real people and extraordinary supernatural works took place.

What would Jesus and the first century disciples have done without the Holy Spirit?

Jesus emptied Himself of His heavenly attributes before coming to earth as a REAL MAN. His birth was from a real woman implanted with the seed of God by the HOLY SPIRIT. Yes, the Holy Spirit in a supernatural experience caused the conception of Christ. While on earth Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit and at His baptism the Holy Spirit descended upon Him and remained upon Him. Jesus had done no mighty works until after His baptism. All the supernatural works Jesus did on earth were done by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Yes, the same Holy Spirit that has come to indwell the ordinary real people of today and transform them as Jesus is in the world. All these things are supernatural experiences. The supernatural miraculous experience of God is for His kingdom people today.

Mat 3:16 -4:1: When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

John 1:32-34: And John bore witness, saying, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God."

The lack of real supernatural spiritual experience is why, in many of His people, faith has waned and has not grown into powerful supernatural lives as Christ in the world by the Holy Spirit. Simply and plainly stated we have had a form without the reality of SUPERNATURAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. We are not speaking of flaky fleshly-oriented manifestations. We are talking about the miraculous world changing experiences like those recorded in the Bible.

Why in the world should spiritual people fear supernatural miraculous experiences of God? Is it because centuries ago religion became a form of godliness denying the power of God? The powerless form contained little or no supernatural spiritual experiences and the role of the Holy Spirit was considered as secondary as a sort of go-between messenger like an angel. Doctrines were devised and taught to justify our not having the reality of the kingdom lifestyle which further separated people from experiencing the greater works of God. Because the church was powerless without the full work of the Holy Spirit, the only visible demonstration of the supernatural in the world was the demonic false works of witchcraft and sorcery. Therefore, Christians came to believe that all supernatural activity of today was probably of the devil.

2 Tim 3:5: ... having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

In the past century, there has been some movement toward restoring faith and believing again in the real works of the Holy Spirit on earth. However, most theologically trained people of today and those they have taught do not yet see the reality of the full work of the Holy Spirit and have little or no capacity to receive the supernatural works of God flowing today by the Holy Spirit. We have become a sad, sick people who cast a dark shadow of doubt and unbelief on the supernatural spiritual experiences from God. We may say we believe but may only really believe that God did it in the past. Like the first century Pharisees, many religious people are not entering the real kingdom of God and are preventing those who would enter. The Pharisees probably did not have bad intentions but they believed in their religious systems so intensely that they were not open to the kingdom of God coming forth in the world.

Mat 23:13: But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

A great darkness of demonic deception is infecting the minds of the people of the world.

The issue is further complicated by the great amount of receptivity for the demonic in the western world. Modern culture is being shaped by the works of sorcerers, psychics, and "new age" philosophies creating intolerance for Jesus and the works of the Holy Spirit. Our religion has failed to save us from the deadly ways of the enemy. Truly, for many people of the world, good has become evil, and evil has become good. Extreme perversions are seen as normal ways of life and the name and works of Jesus flowing by the Holy Spirit are seen as hate-filled and evil oppressive elitism.

Extreme intervention of God may be required to cleanse the earth and restore the real kingdom of God.

A spiritual people walking in the supernatural are now being prepared on earth to become lights to a dark world in times of severe intervention of God’s massive cleansing judgments against all pride and loftiness of man and all that exalts itself against God.
Today is a good time for all who are being cleansed from the powerless religions of the past to enter more fully into the reality of the supernatural empowerment and works of the Holy Spirit.

We have observed for decades an increasing division between darkness and light as the fallen world has grown darker. Gross darkness has become clearly manifest in the world. Now, at this present moment, there is an increasing division in the church as well.

As supernatural Holy Spirit works are coming forth in this time of great preparation, the people are dividing into those who really believe and those who do not receive the miraculous works of the Holy Spirit and have hardened their hearts toward the people who are experiencing increasing supernatural reality of God. The light of the glory of God appears as darkness to those who oppose supernatural spiritual experiences. They oppose and sometimes bring railing accusations against the miraculous works of the Holy Spirit and those walking in them.

The division within the church is becoming more intense daily. It is not possible to be a true child of God and deny the supernatural experiences of the Holy Spirit. Being born again is a supernatural experience of the Holy Spirit. There is no work of Jesus in the world without the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to give credit to the devil for the supernatural works of Holy Spirit and the holy angels (ministering spirits) sent from God. Some supernatural experiences seem more natural than others. The miraculous works are simply those that are less common to us at this time. The fire of God has come near to earth in this season and uncommon miracles are occurring more frequently.

No one need be lost, and no one need miss the supernatural experiences of miraculous preparation for the great worldwide shaking, cleansing judgments of God purifying the earth. Today God’s abundant mercy and grace are fully available through the work of Jesus by the Holy Spirit to walk through the rent veil fully into the heavenly supernatural experience of becoming one with God. Full redemption has drawn nigh to you and God’s throne of mercy and grace is yet open for all to come into the next realm of His glory. Step through the veil of doubt, and receive great faith as a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Gal 5:22-23: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Keep on pursuing love.
It never fails.

Ron McGatlin

http://archive.openheaven.com/" target=_blank eudora="autourl - archive.openheaven.com
mailto:basileia@earthlink.net - basileia@earthlink.net



Replies:

Posted By: Helen Overholt
Date Posted: 05/27/2008 at 3:42pm

TRUTH spoken once again Ron....Nothing needed to be added here other than we need to Wake Up, Heed The Call & Obey....And as always i speak concerning myself first...Smiles.....

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"HE Who Promised Is Faithful; For HE & HIS WORD Are One"










Posted By: Marjo Richardso
Date Posted: 05/27/2008 at 5:36pm

Proverbs 3:5-6

Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.



Posted By: Lyn McSweeney
Date Posted: 05/27/2008 at 6:08pm

 

Bless you Ron!!!!

 

Gal 5:22-23: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

 



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Love and Blessings!



Posted By: Anita Lea
Date Posted: 05/27/2008 at 7:30pm

But without faith it is impossible to please Him: but he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that deligently seek Him.  Hebrews 1:6

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Your Sister in Christ,
Anita
Stand and see this great thing which the Lord will do before your eyes... 1Sam 12:16



Posted By: Bojo Sun
Date Posted: 05/27/2008 at 8:35pm

 

I am so encouraged by the word you shared here, dear Ron, so I would dare to post what I shared with others yesterday as confirmation on my part.

It was written poorly and to a particular person. I hope it will help a bit for some of us.

------------------------------

Faith needs to work on
 
Paul (or other) said judge yourself whether we are in the faith.
 
Sometime we need to be rebuked back to our faith in the Lord for occasions will rise when we forget what we are saved of and what we are saved into. Pressures of the world and burdens of earthly life so easily entangle us to a point that the spiritual aptitude of our life lost its orietation and we slide over the surface of life as if we are on the moon. The reality is that we are always on thin ice and need to pay careful attention always the way we walk in our daily choices till living in the spirit is like breath in and out.
 
Peter admonished us to work out with fear and trembling of our salvation. Paul applied constant self-examination to see to it that he was not disqualified. Jesus said narrow is the path to enter into the Kingdom of God. The unfruitful branches are doomed to be pruned off of the vine. Rejoice not that we walk in power and gifts, rejoice in that our name are written in Heaven.
 
A Good Example of this is the father of all men of faith, Abram. He was called to answer a call, yet the promise was not granted (even after the convenant was given and him be counted as righteous) till his faith was tested on Mount Moriah. And what a test! It was kind of totality and absoluteness.
 
We imagine God would like to bargin us into a deal with our "faith". Rather not, He state explicitly His request of total sacrifice and present to us what exactly He wishes us to answer and He leaves it there. I suspect Abraham would be blessed personally if he chose not to sacrifice his only beloved son. He was treated as a friend by God.  Yet he would miss the goal of God's paramount calling in His life: father of faith. Being a friend of God or enjoy great fellowship with Him is wonderful, but to be a man of total faith and have His seal of approval into all righteousness is really another thing. Abraham chose wisely and fulfilled the mission God ordered through his life, thus we can be benefited by this act of faith till this day. God indeed supplied a sacrifice. Not only Issac was spared by the offering of the ram, we, if we possess the same faith in God, would also be spared by "the Lamb slained from the foundation of the world".
 
Faith in God is not an ideal to act upon, or notion to entertain with. No, faith is a substance, even that of a person, even that of Christ Jesus, who is the perfecter of our faith. He perfected it externally as a precedent of all his brothers, He will perfect it internally as a living power in all his brothers as well. He is our example of faith, He is also the power and source of our faith. Make no mistake, without this faith, we will not have eternal life, nor enjoy the power by and through the His Holy Spirit.
 
I pray that God would make all of us man of faith, not of anything else.




Posted By: Karen Holland
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 4:02am


Bojo wrote:
Rejoice not that we walk in power and gifts, rejoice in that
our name are written in Heaven.


Power is intoxicating
Rejoice rather that your name is written in the Lamb's book of life
God grant it may never be blotted out!

Bojo wrote:
I pray that God would make all of us man of faith, not of
anything else.



Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who
for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat
down at the right hand of the throne of God. --Heb 12:2


Let us keep our eyes on the Lamb and follow in faith wherever He
leads!



-------------
__________________
Trust in the Lord
Karen



Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 4:38am

Quote:
Some way the multitude of supernatural spiritual experiences recorded in the Bible have become to us like unreal stories of the past much like fairy tales. The people of faith in the Bible who experienced the supernatural have become like gods or fantasy super heros to us. In the real world of our day, their supernatural experiences seem very remote from us ordinary real people. We seem to have developed a subconscious belief syndrom of "that was then and this is now." The experience of the supernatural works of the Holy Spirit are not considered of great practical value in our lives of today. However, knowing the facts of the Bible and knowing about God, especially Jesus and the Father, is considered to be of great value; while the experience of life through the Holy Spirit is considered of only secondary importance at best.

Religion has caused us to move from the real experience of Christ Jesus and the Father by the Holy Spirit flowing supernatural spiritual life in and through us producing miraculous faith and works of God. Our faith has weakened and in some it has died because of a lack of real experiences of God in us by the Holy Spirit. We subconsciously think that the incredible supernatural spiritual experiences were for all those special people in the Bible but we are only ordinary people.

Wake up! Mary the mother of Jesus was not a special daughter of an emperor or a goddess. She was an ordinary person much like you and me. All the disciples of Jesus in the first centuries were not super people or something special they were real and ordinary men and women of no special endowment until the Holy Spirit came upon them and brought the Spirit of Christ Jesus to live in them. You and I are not any different. Except, possibly because we have been poisoned by false religious teachings and trained by ungodly experiences in the world we have hardened our hearts with doctrinal rocks and thorns of this life which, have filled our lives and damaged or destroyed our faith in the supernatural reality of the real kingdom of God.

Consider all the works of the Holy Spirit upon or within ordinary people throughout the Bible. We would not have anything of God without the work of the Holy Spirit. There are over http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=21890&a mp;PN=1&TPN=1 - Almost every chapter in the Old Testament records supernatural works of the Spirit experienced in the same world we live in. Who would Abraham have been and what would he have done without an experience from God. Who would Moses have been without almost continually experiencing supernatural reality with God from the burning bush to the parting of the Red Sea and the Mountain that burned with fire. Who would Elijah have been without supernatural experiences with God. All through the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came upon real people and extraordinary supernatural works took place.

What would Jesus and the first century disciples done without the Holy Spirit?

Jesus emptied Himself of His heavenly attributes before coming to earth as a REAL MAN. His birth was from a real woman implanted with the seed of God by the HOLY SPIRIT. Yes, the Holy Spirit in a supernatural experience caused the conception of Christ. While on earth Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit and at His baptism the Holy Spirit descended upon Him and remained upon Him. Jesus had done no mighty works until after His baptism. All the supernatural works Jesus did on earth were done by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Yes, the same Holy Spirit that has come to indwell the ordinary real people of today and transform them into as Jesus is in the world. All these things are supernatural experiences. The supernatural miraculous experience of God is for His kingdom people today.

Mat 3:16 -4:1: When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

John 1:32-34: And John bore witness, saying, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God."

The lack of real supernatural spiritual experience is why, in many of His people, faith has waned and has not grown into powerful supernatural lives as Christ in the world by the Holy Spirit. Simply and plainly stated we have had a form without the reality of SUPERNATURAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. We are not speaking of flaky fleshly oriented manifestations. We are talking about the miraculous world changing experiences like those recorded in the Bible.

Faith Produces Works - Great Faith Great Works -

Supernatural powerful miracles are normal life in the HOLY SPIRIT -
 
Power and Power Gifts flow abundantly in the real life of oneness with God by the HOLY SPIRIT -

Faith works by love -
 
Agape' unconditional love flows only from God - 

The love of the Father and the Son flow to us only by the Holy Spirit -

POWERFUL HUMILITY and MIRACLE WORKING LOVE is normal living in the SPIRIT.

James 2:18-20: But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.  You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe; and tremble!  But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Thanks for all you love and comments - lets continue to embrace the love and power of God in real supernatural experience in the Spirit and welcome holy angels to do mighty works among us.

Ron




Posted By: Larry Denton
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 8:03am

 Bro Ron Writes...

Why in the world should spiritual people fear supernatural miraculous experiences of God? Is it because centuries ago religion became a form of godliness denying the power of God? The powerless form contained little or no supernatural spiritual experiences and the role of the Holy Spirit was considered as secondary as a sort of go-between messenger like an angel. Doctrines were devised and taught to justify our not having the reality of the kingdom lifestyle which further separated people from experiencing the greater works of God. Because the church was powerless without the full work of the Holy Spirit, the only visible demonstration of the supernatural in the world was the demonic false works of witchcraft and sorcery. Therefore, Christians came to believe that all supernatural activity of today was probably of the devil.

2 Tim 3:5: ... having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

Then.... Bro Ron and I speak of all of my lifes experienc and perhaps more so having work ( in faith) my calling and election I will share what may be "art of that anwer to why men involve them self with form as opposed to power.

For what reason, in tha we are in grace to proceed in a reghteous relationship  with Our Lord asked to caome and set down and reason with Him and Our Father as how these things con to be and in comeing to be in the mids of men they in turn come to do.

I would say it is part of there sin nature to hide in part that part which is there fear of God, but this is not a Godly reverence I a talking about. It is fear of having the desire to Look Like they have Knowledge and yet via pride they resolve to project that Knowing to suppoet there "accaptance among men".

One thing we know that when the Grace came vai the Promise of God and the Holy Spirit manifested Him self in the dynamice of a Rightous Relationship with the Father so that the both the Son and the Father could be both praised and honored, the effect would "if one chooses to move in this understanding""Expose Sin."

Here is a good explanation of a Righteous Gathering in which men and women are not given over to what is going without ( in the world) and honoring that which Chirst is to them  in being  with one another "within"!

I speak of being within Hin in Name/ character and then doing ( manifesting manner) so as to love one another.

1 Cor. 11:25-34 (KJV) 
    After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.  For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.  Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.  But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.  For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.  For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.  But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.  And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

"Tarry for one another?"

Here is what is so interesting :

" That ye not come together not unto condemnation!"

And it appeares they could do this and it was this kind of meeting that needed to be set in a righteous order when Paul would come changing the character of the event into a family gathering!

I believe this up- right way had order in it so the in everyones approach to allowing God to be honored and one another the Holy Spirit was free in truth to bring correction to all involved and it was this "presence that all would reverence!

In other words it was not a have too thing , but a want to thing so that all involved would indeed recive healing, in addition to preventive wisdom to live without falling sick.

To do this, was ideed a thing of power and it seem to have a form, but that form was itself super- nautral in that it was like being in a family in which all knew that Father would do what He would do out of love.

It a father and son ( daughter thing in which ) all would "trust" Father to bring correction.

1 Cor. 12:25 (KJV) 
    That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.


Soooo what would happen is that those given to iniquite would have problems dowing there pride thing of just sharing haveing what they were eating of the tree of Knowledge!

1 Cor. 12:26 (KJV) 
    And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Here is the explanation of how this power ( presence of Our Lord) via the Holy Spirit would work in exposing sin:

1 Cor. 14:24-25 (KJV) 
    But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:  And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

In fear as opposed to love men choose to keep these secersts of the heart / mind in that if they were found out, this would open them up to question about the wisdom they would use in the life style they move in , which in turn would manifest their idenity.

Seems to me Satan uses the same way in which he can praise and keet the secrests, yet in  doing so honors his on way as opposed to Our Lords way.

Seeing how prophets are fist to see this no wonder the are on the ht  list, but more so if the men were experienced. Men in fear find it hard to have an honest and uprigh conversation with men who are experinced and walk as elders as opposed thos who are gifted. It's not the gifting the causes the problem with men given to form things for their on glory, its the character in the man who cause the fear of God to come upon them know that how they do what the do has no fruti in it...

Again... we know the end result, if you cant out reason him, then better to kill him lest he open up the secerets of the mind / heart  and all these leaders be exposed.

I think this is a good explanation you have shared!

 The powerless form contained little or no supernatural spiritual experiences and the role of the Holy Spirit was considered as secondary as a sort of go-between messenger like an angel

Bro Ron McGatlin

Kind of humbling this understanding is when you see it is a matter of princitple and to come down out of the pulpits of today?

Bro Larry

 

 



 


 

 



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http://prophets-of-new.blogspot.com/">



Posted By: Bojo Sun
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 12:26pm

Karen and Ron:

The writing I posted is concerning a particular person and was done in a rush manner. Now allow me to offer some context and further some of my thoughts and reflections under your kind direction of this thread. I feel much honored and am very glad to engage such a discussion with you. This I speak from my heart.

We talked about faith and its fruits. I offered my friend an illustration of Jesus' command to abide in him using the parable of branches and the Vine.

Every branch abides in the Vine. I think we should not always second-guess whether we are grafted in the Vine or not. We are in then we are, or not. Rather, as branches, we should have our mind set on producing good fruits. Certain teaching always tells us to check out whether we are in the Vine or not and think that is the reason the Lord reminded of us to abide in Him. I think not, His is to tell us to bear fruit while be assured that we will do so if we continue to abide in Him. His intent is to admonish us to concentrate on growth, not merely on evidences that we abide in Him. If a person has to be reassured again and again that the Lord is with him and in him, he has a problem with the Lord. He is double-minded and will not be able to grow very well. Sometime, or most of time, I suspect that people rushing in events of the supernatural is out of a desperation of unbelief. They are not able to enjoy the hidden manner or pure milk; they crave for meat and solid food. They cry for and feast on the things God is not so happy with or not intended for them.

The lust for spiritual things can be greatly misused by the Enemy. This is not to be compared with the zeal and passion for the Kingdom of God, which is only through our faith in Jesus Christ, the Way and the Life, and the inner power, by the Spirit that is mightily working towards those who believe. It is something to be rid of, not to be encouraged into. The Lord will give some away with their depraved mind. I have studied a bit of the fruits of past two waves of the so-called spiritual revivals, ran into some of their circles various times in the past. I found hovering over or gathering around such ministries is a group of people always in want and never able to stand up in the Lord. There is a serious problem if a minister continues to feed on such people and did not remind of their spiritual state. Maturity is the final goal of all services in the Lord, not supernatural things, certainly not about the mere usage of diverse gifts. They are all needed, but first thing first, they have to be appropriated in order and become beneficial for the building-up of others in the Body unto maturity.

People argue that Jesus always carried a whirlwind in His earthly ministry. Then I will remind him that maybe he has concentrated on the wrong side of the coin. He ministered to "His Own" with much discipline and order. It was this whirlwind of the multitude He walked away and was deeply saddened by their hearts. Their hearts were not right with Him. He refused to continue to feed their flesh when they refused to be fed in the Spirit.

Power gifts and supernatural encounters can only serve us to become aware of the Life through and in the Vine, even make us being grafted in. But they will not produce the kind of life with fruits as the Father desires and gave unto the angels to harvest. Only the power of resurrection could do so. It is the gradual and trying work of this fire most unbearable to the human flesh, even aiming the very death of it. No flesh and blood can inherit this kind of Glory.

Seeing the Kingdom of God is not to be equated with the entering into, not mention being established in the Kingdom of God. Crossing the Red Sea is still a long way from the crossing the Jordan, not mention the falling down of the Glory of God on Zion. Do we not know that there are two baptisms of water and two baptisms of fire? Jesus came to kindle a different fire from the one most of the ministers are pursuing today. It is the fire of the Glory of the Father.

"Come, get some"? For what? I would say, now if only we know God is real and is alive, then, repent of our dead ways of life at where we are, and we will have the Kingdom of God in us, even eternal life! He is in us if we believe and walk in it! This Life and Spirit is free and in no need of airfares or bus fares.

Let no part of our body be healed till our dead soul is healed first! If our left eye hinders us from entering into the Kingdom, plunk it out and throw it to dogs; if our right leg, cut off and burn it in fire! Forfeit it all, I will say, so that we will get hold of Him. Do something to die and He will do much for us to live!

Let's set things in order. Righteousness comes out of abiding in the order of the Kingdom of God. Let no one deceive us that we can bypass this and further our spiritual life and entertain some angels. Angels can deceive us, the Holy Ghost will not. Our own experiences can deceive us, the Truth of this Gospel will not. Muhammad got some angel, so did Joseph Smith. Yet they are deadly deceived.

Good angels will leap if we receive this Truth and worship God in the spiritual life of this Faith. In this day and this hour, we need not the ministry of angels, even they are of great service to us. We need the ministry of the Holy Ghost! It is the Spirit makes us a son of the Most High God, not a good prophet with some angelic visitations, not even the most powerful angel!

When somebody tells us Jesus Christ is an angel in the Old Testament, even the angel of the Lord, be careful. Jesus Christ being our High Priest is of one order only. That is the order of Melchizedek. That is the everlasting covenant in Heaven. The New Testament clearly stated that all the covenants that God had ever established with men were established and ministered by angels, and they could not give us eternal life except the one with Adam in the very beginning. Yet it was abolished before allowed to produce another son of God. It is impossible for angels to receive, not mention to minister, the fullness of the Glory of God. Those covenants could not produce sons to inherit the Glory of God, which is the very purpose why God the Father created all things in and through the Son. None had come to God the Father before Jesus, who came from Him. That means, before His coming, no other entity has ever revealed the Glory or the Name of the Father unto this creation, not even the angel of the LORD, not even Moses (the name revealed in Sinai is still a lesser name). But when Jesus Christ came, through His blood, He restored the everlasting covenant unto this creation as the Lamb slained from the foundation of this world and also the Son without sin and deceit yet died for the sins of the world and became sin itself in order to satisfy the wrath of God thus fulfilled all the promises that God had ever made to mankind. He made His Father known to His own and revealed His Name to all creation.

Some say Christ transformed in the OT as an angel in order to minister to man. That seems to the NT ministers in danger of giving angel too much honor and glory in the dealings of God. What a strange statement! Would you believe, if this is the case, that Jesus and those were taught by Him in person would miss to mention such a critical and fundamental point in their expositions and teachings? I know Peter, John, and Paul, whoever loved our Lord with all his heart, would not hesitate a bit to mention it as a strong argument in their dealings with all kinds of false doctrines if indeed this is true and could add some honor to Him or clarify some understanding about Him. I think not. Who has bewitched us with such kind of teachings? Who would like us to endlessly seek after such “wisdom”? If such revelation is from the so-called third heaven, then I dare to challenge it is the darkness in the heavenly places transforming as light. This is not the Jesus Christ of our Eternal Salvation!  This is another Jesus. This is one of many anti-christs we have been warned of. Any teaching that denies the Son of God came in the flesh is to be clearly and absolutely rebuked. Such spirit is not from God. Such a discernment need to be made before we move on to endorse or verify any work of the Holy Spirit. To say the flock is a mixture is ok for within the earthly church we will always have some mixture, but it is totally another matter for teacher and minister who would teach or encourage people into wrong doctrines. And this is not something just to name it as judgmental spirit or religiosity could be written off with. This is a serious issue for early church leaders, so it is for today. I do believe what I discussed here is not about theology. I am of no training in any religious establishment, or ever have I read any book of theology. I can personally testify that I was taught by Him. I enjoy no credential of man and would remain so. Brothers and sisters, here is not a disagreement or agreement issue. Here is a life and death issue. Here is no mixture at all as to what being taught and ministered. It is not for argument sake I wrote the first long piece of doctrinal things in my whole life. I am more than over to have any regard as to being right or wrong. I worry about the state of our welfare in Him and where are we going from here.

Christ chose to become a man and thus honored His own by making himself a little lower than angels, so when he died and validated the covenant for his own, he could disarm all principalities and powers for their benefit. He is surely the Holy One of God and has been working through His Spirit of Prophecy from the very beginning of things. He is ever above all things, in heaven and on earth and below the earth as stated clearly in the Bible. He is the Only Begotten Son of God, the perfect Lamb, who is worthy to open the book of life in the court of God. Never had this book opened till He came, thus He has the authority to confess our names to the Father and to angels. To indicate that He had lowered himself once to become an angle, even greatest angel of all time is not in accordance with who He is and was and will ever be. He remains the same. He became one of us is because we are one in Him and in the Father. To Him, we are not another.  He did not merely transform into another thing. It pleases the Father for His Son to identify Himself with us, being it on the Cross or now in His presence as the High Priest for us. He transformed and is transforming into the seed-the Spirit of Sonship-from which a harvest of sons of God will be gathered. Gnostic teachings should be forever warned of. We should have the fear of John the Apostle to run out of the bath even naked when one of them is under the same roof!

Only by the Spirit of the Son of God could we come to the throne of God, even sit at His right hand in Christ. Angels have to bow if this Glory is revealed in us. Yet even for this very reason, He died and rouse again, sanctified us, justified us, even glorified us. Read John 17 again. See what our High Priest prayed for us!

Be careful with after death experiences. I had one, even two, and was shown unspeakable things and preached uncontrollably in some unknowable tongue the gospel to myriads of angels as I was sitting alone in my room. I was seen opening heaven with a sword in my right hand while angelic being hovering around. I was “slained” and put on the ground. 7 days I did not eat much, not mention sleep. But all these did not put to death my flesh and my lust, my rebellion and pride, my imagination and stupidity. I have seen the Glory of the Most High not with eyes while a group of sincere believers were puzzled and confused or being carried away with so-called anointing. Listen, I tell you a mystery. The Glory of the Father could not be seen by human eyes or detected by any human senses. Be not carried away with visions and sensations; humble yourself under His mighty hand. Be holy for He is holy. Strive to enter into His rest, for few will enter.

John the Baptist will decrease, but the Son of God will increase and the increase of His Kingdom will of no end. No end! Do we not know that we are made ministers of this? And this government rests on His shoulders, that is the Stewardship of the Church? We are His shoulders, and more than that, we are His mouth with a double-edged sword, His eyes with a burning torch, His feet of a burning bronze. We are the very signs and wonders of all His creation. We are His saints in the land of the living in whom is all His delight! Bless be His Holy Name!!!

Yesterday, a friend and his 6 years old son came to me for prayer. The boy was asking to receive the Holy Spirit. After a time of asking him why he wanted this thing, he said that he wanted to be a son of God.

We prayed for him and he became very quiet and remained there with his eyes closed for about 20 minutes, a very strange thing for him. Then he said he saw heaven and a shining star, later on saw moon and earth, etc.

I was surprised by this but not astonished, for the Lord had been addressing to me that the sign of receiving the baptism of Holy Spirit is not sensational or pertaining to gifts like speaking in tongues. It is explicitly stated as receiving dreams and visions by the Spirit which the common phenomenon as happened to many that I prayed for. The Spirit of Jesus (Son of God) is the Spirit of Prophecy. This is the sign prophesied by Joel as one received power unto eternal life by the Spirit, not the pouring out of spiritual gifts, that is of different kind of power by the Holy Spirit.

Our Lord received this baptism as He was baptized in water by John. This is power from on high. And John could only serve as witness to this thing. This is given by the Father, which is eternal life. However, gifts are by the Lord Jesus Christ. "As He ascended unto heaven, He gives gifts to men." The Spirit is a life-giving spirit, which means, with or without gifts, this power of life is ministered if we choose to remain in Him.

I came back from this quiet visit and opened the Bible, found out that heaven was open and the Spirit came like dove, even lightning upon Jesus when He was baptized with water and the Spirit. I knew, as the Lord confirmed there at that very moment, that the boy indeed received the Baptism of Holy Spirit. Then the Lord said to me, this is the perfect example what it is to be baptized in the Spirit. It is of order and peace and divine sensibility (fear or terror) of the presence of God.

Anointing for believers should not always be deemed as a sudden invasion, it is a peaceable thing. If it appears as invasion, then it is because violence is being done towards darkness or the demonic, which means such recipients or part of them are excluded from the order of the Kingdom in the beginning. This manner of deliverance should not be considered as the norm. The perfect example should that of Jesus'.

I have no rejection of ministering in supernatural. Actually it has been because of my persistence in this matter, I have been much criticized. Yet I do reject the notion to treat disorder or false things as necessary for God's own people, watching them being misled into purposeless pursuit of signs and wonders for the weak affirmation of their lives in the Lord, as many are doing today. Where is our faith? What is the substance of our Faith? Where is a divine responsibility of the Holy servants of Most High God?

Repentance is the ministry of John the Baptist, the climax of the Old Dispensation. We, however, if we continue in the ministry of the New Covenant, will minister life in the Spirit, and that is of the greatest order, even the order of the Kingdom of God. The covenant ministered and upheld by angels is no glory at all compared to this glorious covenant, which is able to give life, even glory to glory.

Let us, who have received this ministry, never be confused by any visible, external, or rather, earthly, and so-called “invisible” heavenly things anymore. Let's pursue the perfection of all things, even wisdom from above and love of the Father, which the glory of God, even our inheritance in Him. As we fully entered into this glory, we become His inheritance, even the summation of all His work. Let's enter into this Rest. 

The Lord is near. The Kingdom is now if we believe. And this is the faith of the substance of things we hope for, even His very Glory and Life. If it produces some evidence in this visible world, so be it; if not, let us be assured we are in no way lack in this glorious life by His Holy Spirit! Make no mistake, visible evidences are still base things. The perfection is in the unseen, and that is not merely out of some heavenly encounters. Let no one boast, not even Paul, beyond our measure. Let all of us pursue love, faith and hope in the Christ, even the Anointed One. Let's be one with Him and abide in Him by the perfect ministry of His Spirit. Let's seek that which is unseen, even believe as we have not seen with our eyes. Such is more blessed, even than any of the early disciples.

Again, I speak with my limited understanding. My only purpose is that we further our understanding in Him and our work for Him.

I would ask you to be so kind to pray for me. I am young in the Lord, very inexperienced. God bless...




Posted By: Gail Geer
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 1:32pm

Dear Bro. Ron,  my highest respects toward you for this is a true and valued word right now for our churches and Pastors.
I am smack dab in the middle of this situation, right now, in my own church.
My Pastor has repeatedly came so close to crossing over the threshold into more of the supernatural and just letting the Holy Spirit have His way. Then he gets fearful and everything gets put to a halt. He even exclaimed once, from the pulpit, that God showed him this and it made him afraid. At least he was honest. Most would not be, before their congregation. Now, he has begun speaking against certain things in his sermons that has really troubled me, to say the least. I began making a quick list as he said things: "If you're believing you get saved and then try to live 'right'; you are wrong! No one can live 'right' and you'll just get frustrated."    "If you are having dreams and visions, you are of little worth and I have no use for you".   "If you are hearing the Lord 'speak' to you or 'hearing from God' all the time, then I have no use for you."  " I have only had two dreams from God in all my years of ministry and one was 25 yrs ago! It took me years to figure out what it meant. I still have not figured out the second dream"!  "I have had it with prophets! If you have to have the title before your name, you are running on an emotional roller coaster and this is not of God. If a title makes you from God, then you are false". (I wonder if everyone should quit using the title, Pastor, with him?)   "I better not hear one more "thus sayeth the Lord"!   
Need I say more?
Now, I have been the prophet of our church . But there has been a good relationship between us. I have never used the title prophet. I have never went to him with a "thus sayeth the Lord". There has always been respect, there and order.   I missed two weeks of church due to a family emergency. Before I missed, all was well. When I returned, this was being said. He has put the brakes on, again!
So, I am seeking direction on this. Have any wisdom to impart?


-------------
Mighty Warrior of God
Prophetic Minister



Posted By: Bojo Sun
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 2:42pm

Sheep And Goats

Dee Hoetmer

South Africa

 

 

mailto:deeconsultancy@absamail.co.za - deeconsultancy@absamail.co.za

25th May 2008

 

Many of My people who think they are sheep are in reality, goats. Not truly knowing My Spirit or Me they operate in soul hype and never come to the fullness of the stature of My Son. Many of these are presently pastoring churches with a certain level of anointing and yea even miracles for I love to honor the name of My Son but they stay in the shallow pools of My Word and anointing and hence the sheep bleat in harmony with these, thinking all is well. But oh My Beloveds when the storms come, both through the natural and through attacks from the evil one, their roots are in the sand and their roots have not gone down to the bedrock of The Rock! Although it pains My heart I have to allow trails and afflictions so that they are forced to push their roots down as a tree seeking the water table in the midst of a drought, or when the greater storms come these will not withstand.

 

It is all very well to sing My praises, it is all very well to shout that you are an overcomer and have victory but you have not yet been tried by fire to refine your faith as gold. While it is yet day Beloveds, seek My face AND MY HEART to truly know the heart of The Father, lest you be offended by the trials sent to test you. My trails come to make you stronger that you may withstand the evil day.

 

Sink your spiritual roots deeper into My living waters. It is not enough to go to church on a Sunday and sing My praises. It is not enough to have touches of My presence; TO WITHSTAND IN THE COMING DAYS YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE MY ANOINTING CONSTANTLY ABIDING IN YOU. The authority, power and anointing you sing about are resident in My over comers. How can you be an over comer if you have not been tried in the fires of affliction and loss of all, including your reputation as Job did. Job truly got to know Me and My heart and My greatness through these very things, therefore Beloveds do not resist, or blame the devil, but praise Me in the days of your troubles that you may truly become My mighty warrior that you sing about with so much gusto!

 

Oh My children I do love you with an everlasting love but many of you have not even started to plumb My depths. Do not be a goat and resist the goads but as sheep submit to dying to self. IN THE END OF DAYS IT WILL BECOME CLEAR AS TO WHOM HAVE SUNK THEIR ROOTS INTO THE DEPTHS OF MY SPIRIT AND HAVE BECOME SHEEP, WHO ARE TRULY LED OF MY SPIRIT, AND THE GOATS WHO HAVE FOLLOWED THE INSTINCTS OF THEIR OWN SOULS DESIRES and have only paddled in the shallows and have been content with little of Me!

 

If you truly desire more of Me, spend time beholding Me and you will be changed from strength to strength and from glory to glory. O My little children do not be content with the way things "have always been" ; with the "status quo" of the church but truly seek My face.

 

Your loving Father.




Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 2:47pm

Gail, My heart goes out to you and to the pastor involved. Most likely he has come near the kingdom and is being drawn toward it and is fighting back and digging in his heals. He is somewhat typical of thousands upon thousands of past churchianity theologically trained pastors. This is a worldwide situation in which multitudes are being confronted with the truth of the real work of the Holy Spirit and the real kingdom of righteousness and peace and joy IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.

The battle to preach the kingdom and see it come forth seemed futile and impossible twenty five years ago. Now it is coming up like grass in a field covering the world. Suddenly, those opposing the real kingdom are in great fear as this change is really happening. Their tolerance for what seemed like a non important move is turning into a an offensive attack on the real kingdom of God and those who are preaching and demonstrating the kingdom.

Remain strong in the Lord and circumspectly hear and obey His direction. The main thing is not whether we live long or die young in battle. The main thing is to accomplish the purpose for which we are sent.

Much love and respect - and remember love never fails.

Ron



Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 3:35pm

BoJo Sun

Thank you for your responses and agreements with the supernatural work of the Spirit of God in our present world. Everything the Holy Spirit does is spiritual in origin and often beyond the natural or in other words, supernatural. Being born again is through the blood of Jesus which is not in the natural blood but in the Spirit. We are born again by the Holy Spirit. Our abiding as a branch in Christ is through the Spirit. We are obviously not real branches and He is not a natural vine. Our abiding in Him is by the Spirit and is not natural but supernatural. God is Spirit.

We have none of God on earth without the Holy Spirit. When I write of the supernatural spiritual experiences I speak of this level of miraculous events. We began in the Spirit and if we finish it will be in the Spirit. It will be by spiritual experience and not intellectual study and such other striving in our natural mind and flesh. The Holy Spirit is God, just as much as Father and Son are God. Please read through and consider the over http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=21890&a mp;PN=1&TPN=1 - 150 works of the Spirit in just the New Testament. All the works of God originate in Him who is the Spirit that causes all creation to exist. Jesus was not in His earthly body in heaven before His birth. He was Spirit son of the Father of Spirits. Everything about the Spirit God is beyond the natural or supernatural.

It is not now and has never been about our power or our fleshly need for power. Until we are dead to ourselves we can never know the vast reality of His power and love flowing through Jesus in us by the Holy Spirit. That is the purpose of our cross is our death that resurrection life (His life) can supernaturally flow through us by the Spirit.

Karen quoted scripture about keeping our eyes on Jesus and following Him. Well, how in the world can we even think of doing that in the natural. If we see Him and keep our eyes on Him it will be in the Spirit and by the Spirit. We have nothing of Jesus without the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus said it is more beneficial for me to go away and the Holy Spirit come.

Bojo, angels are ministering spirits that come to minister to the children of God as they cam to minister to Jesus. They are real and they do show up when sent and they do perform works from the Spirit realm and cause things to be changed in the natural realm. There are holy angels and fallen angels. Fallen angels will work with sorcerers and witches and such. Holy angels work with the children of God. They often are sent with messages of tremendous value to help us. There are so many examples of New and Old Testament encounters and works of angels. They are not to be worshiped  or feared but are powerful and valuable ministering spirits sent from God in heaven to work with us.

I believe you know these things but wanted to make you aware of what I am speaking about whe I speak of supernatural spritual experiences and works of the Holy Spirit and when I speak of angels.

Much respect and appreciation,

Ron


 




Posted By: Gail Geer
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 3:58pm

Thank you, bro. Ron. You shared good words of encouragement and wisdom.
God bless you.


-------------
Mighty Warrior of God
Prophetic Minister



Posted By: Bojo Sun
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 4:24pm

I am more than in agreement with you, dear Ron.

I have been much benefited by your ministry to the Lord and service unto the Body and I thank you much.

There are things I am still waiting for the Lord to confrim in me. I believe, the move of God will be a move of different nature as we have witnessed, with the days become more evil in this age.

The models West churchanity thrived in will fall pale as God is stirring up a might movement of His Holy Spirit in East, even in Africa. The torch will be passed on within a short future. People in coming day will not talk about God in light of what happened in the West Christianity anymore, they will talked about in light of what just happened or is happening in the "a people who have not called me their God". 

Exciting days is ahead of those who learned to die unto their own passions and pursuits and fully yield to the mighty Hand of God. I am so glad that this is happening in my life time.

Bless you and thank you much for your patience with me.

 




Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 5:29pm

Yes, Bojo, I completely see that. It will be in the East. There is a big test going on now in the west in which God is calling out a people empowered by the Spirit to minister to those who will come out and seek the real Kingdom. Yes the East is the new West as far as the next real moves of God. That is part of why I see the mess still surrounding the fresh move being purified as it goes out to places where there will be a fresh clean wineskin for the new wine birthed in an old and somewhat dirty wineskin in America. Yes, the wineskin is not right but the God anointing is real and is moving out to the world where the move can be carried in a clean wineskin. Here is a link to some that I had written about this several weeks ago. http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=21978&a mp;KW=God+with+us" target=_blank eudora="autourl - http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=21978&a mp;a mp;KW=God+with+us

Ron




Posted By: Bojo Sun
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 7:02pm

Thanks, Ron. I enjoyed that writing very much and knew it is of the Lord.

I am, however, amazed by the revelation God gave you concerning the next move of God in such details and particulars. Glory to God. He is more than able!

I thank the Lord for you.

 




Posted By: Julie Gilbert
Date Posted: 05/28/2008 at 8:42pm

oh Gail... I understand totally where you are at. My mom in the Lord and I attended a denominational church in a very small town... the Pastor invited an evangelist in for a week of ministry, who had been involved in Toronto and Pensacola.... I tell you, he preached with power, signs and wonders.... and lives where changed, people came alive, were re-dedicated to the Lord, filled with the Spirit and empowered to walk in holiness and giftings of the Holy Spirit....

but........

 long story short... religious spirits guised in the old guard members rose up and FEAR came upon this Pastor and he chose to bow to man rather than submit to God, resist the devil and pay the price for revival. As a result, he kept his career, kept his security, kept control... but lost the Presence and demonstration of God in power! as well as many people who God called to leave as a result of his disobedience.

sigh.... seek the Lord as to what HE desires for you to do in this matter.... then OBEY. Holy Spirit will lead you and direct you every step of the way....



-------------
See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you. Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See I am doing a new thing



Posted By: Gail Geer
Date Posted: 05/29/2008 at 7:52am

Thank all of you for the wonderful words of edification.
The service was much better last night.  The Pastor kept us in the spirit of
worship and let the Holy Spirit have His way, even after his teaching.
I agree, Bro. Ron. New wineskins!  It's all about fresh oil and new wine!


-------------
Mighty Warrior of God
Prophetic Minister



Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Date Posted: 05/29/2008 at 6:58pm

Everything the Holy Spirit does is spiritual in origin and often beyond the natural or in other words, supernatural. Being born again is through the blood of Jesus which is not in the natural blood but in the Spirit. We are born again by the Holy Spirit. Our abiding as a branch in Christ is through the Spirit. We are obviously not real branches and He is not a natural vine. Our abiding in Him is by the Spirit and is not natural but supernatural. God is Spirit.

We have none of God on earth without the Holy Spirit. When I write of the supernatural spiritual experiences I speak of this level of miraculous events. We began in the Spirit and if we finish it will be in the Spirit. It will be by spiritual experience and not intellectual study and such other striving in our natural mind and flesh. The Holy Spirit is God, just as much as Father and Son are God. Please read through and consider the over
http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=21890&a mp;PN=1&TPN=1 - 150 works of the Spirit in just the New Testament. All the works of God originate in Him who is the Spirit that causes all creation to exist. Jesus was not in His earthly body in heaven before His birth. He was Spirit son of the Father of Spirits. Everything about the Spirit God is beyond the natural or supernatural.

Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

It is not now and has never been about our power or our fleshly need for power. Until we are dead to ourselves we can never know the vast reality of His power and love flowing through Jesus in us by the Holy Spirit. The purpose of our cross is our death that resurrection life (His life) can supernaturally flow through us by the Spirit.

Mat 16:24-25:  Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.  "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

Ron




Posted By: Larry Denton
Date Posted: 05/30/2008 at 9:49am

  To the Beloved here....

"Whew" do I have some times at spelling things here1

Blessings upon blessing, having taken in the lines upon lines , manifesting the precepts upon precepts of how to be love as well as to love?

Taking up our Cross here in that our desire to follow or Lord at this present time, is requiring us to give up on things that we theought would project us into the supernatural and disrequard the Righteousness of God.

Knowledge cannot complete itself as wisdom, without understanding, just as Our Father will not bless those ( in the Vine) to Honore Him as His sons and daughteres could do, if they were to walk in the Spirit as opposed to the Flesh...

  Thanks to all here, but in the super natural do we here , indeed hear a contrast being discused?  And could it be if the understanding was presented here as a matter of understanding the supernatural... then could that same undersatnding make a correction in the Body of Christ... in that it  would respond in such a manner the power of its character is manifested? Not just in a few gifts , but all?

Thanks Bojo Sun for your long overview , although I think it was a bit short!

So... if it seems good to you could you give us your propetic perspective on the following  Word?

2 Tim. 3:5 (KJV) 
    Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Morphosis
Greek 3446, Strong’s from Greek 3445 (morphoo); formation, i.e. (by implication) appearance (semblance or [concrete] formula) :- form.

Taking the follwing Word in o throught...

Romans 2:4-23 (KJV) 
    Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:  To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 

 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,  Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;  But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 

 For there is no respect of persons with God.  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. 


     Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;  And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 

 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 

Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?  Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?  Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

Do I read this right that one can hava a Form on Godliness and that is forunded on a form of knowledge that has no wisdom, being short of understanding, the results being, Our Lord allows men and women to do what they do and yet via the Holy Spirit bring the correction of  those who have taken up the Cross of  being who we are in the Fatih of Christ...  in not doing what as they do in this false form?

Are we in our formations given to the appearance of what men do , compared to what they are willing to be by loving one another in gathering?

2 Cor. 10:7 (KJV) 
    Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.


Perhaps this is the time we need to  let ourselves of ourselves think this again!

Bro Larry



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Posted By: Bojo Sun
Date Posted: 05/30/2008 at 10:06pm

Dear Larry:

I am much humbled by your offer, of which I have very little to add. But let me try... :) I have a hard time to get cross what you want to say, as I learned to speak and gained a little mastery of English only within few years.

The only thing being a revelation from the Lord to me is the word "godliness". Allow me to explain a little. 

Few, in today's Christian circle, know that Godliness is directly related to the Power and Authority of Jesus Christ, and it takes the same fro us to attain it. Our common versions of "Godliness" are far from the original meaning denoted in Paul's writings.

Turn to the original "design" of man by God (Us) in Genesis. "Godliness" implies in the word "likeness of God" which can only be fulfilled by the work of subdueing everything through the authority and power granted in the Command given to Adam, a living soul. The end of this work is to be changed into His Likeness, which is to be transformed into the Life of the Son, even from the natural body to the spiritual body.

The first Adam (Groom in the Natural) failed the mission through his helper (Bride in the Natural) being deceived by the craftiness of the serpent.

But the second Adam, who is the life-giving Spirit, having become the lamb led to be slaughtered without any rebellion or complaint, fully examplified what means to be subdued. He then was qualified to restore all the work of God entrusted unto man. He established the Truth and made it known and entrusted it to the Church in order that life in this Seed can be reproduced. This He did with the authority and power given to Him by the Father, and He gave the same to the Church when He comissioned the near disciples and those yet to come, even us.

Thus Jesus Christ (The Birdegroom) will work with the help of the Church (The Bride) to subdue everything under His feet.

This time, through the delegation of His authority and power, God the Father, will subdue the Devil as a footstool under the feet of the "man" of Christ, Jesus being the Head and Church the Body. He will accomplish it with all His zeal.

This is also why a man will become one with his wife, which is a great mystery. It implies that the Oneness will fulfil the will of God for man and enable him to bear His Name or Glory.

Godliness is of great power, even the power of the Most High God.

The Devil will devise all means to prevent this from happening, for it means his doom and absolute demise. He will yet again try his best to deceive the "Helper" through his craftiness, turn them away from the simplicity and pure devotion unto the Christ. Anti-Chirst is no other than "not about or of Christ". It can be about angels and heavenly things and enjoy some illegitate power which was granted unto the Evil for the trying and testing of the saint. Godliness without the legitimate Power will only retain a form which purported or advocated by a false kind of power, even the power of the evil.

Jesus rebuked Peter: "Get behind Me, Satan; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.” He knew His mission was to be killed or subdued by this false power in order to break it and introduce again the power of God, thus fulfill the eternal purpose of God towards man.

The Bible says, knowing his time is short, the Devil will produce all kinds of false doctrines in the end time to produce distraction for the saints from recongnizing or realizing this Power, even bombard them with all minds of false supernatural signs and wonders. All these schemes serves only on purpose, that is try to produce a kind of godliness void of the real Power-the resurrection power of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Any manifestation of spiritual power that will not produce this Life and this Truth is doomed to fail us in terms of producing Godliness for us.

Indeed, Godliness is a great mystery.

Yours Humbly
Sun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




Posted By: Larry Denton
Date Posted: 05/31/2008 at 7:38am

 

Hello Bojo, and may I call you "Bo" as this short word meas a son and where you be a son and or a daugther in your being , I am blessed by your presentation of the concepts you are working on.

I must say you mastery of the language is beyond me as many know here!

 I was raised in such a small  country school and having other problem, I was given up on by the time I was fifteen yeas of age. It seems I along with many other kids learn to read and write (?) in such a way that the brains functional transitions is to look at when first as opposed to where and what concepts there are to form a preception. Through in the ideal I I di and do not sound words and Well, if it were no for the love of many brethern I would have this fear of being understood.

It seems tha Satan works over time in projecting this fear as it is a mantter of likness.

Again your work ( thought presented here) are wonderfully filled with an undersatanding that run deep in character.

In the creational dynamic of being ( picking up the cross of enduring this rejection of how it is we appraoch life) as an eternal matter, Our Father created us in Image/ structure and then in function ( abilities) and yet there was something that cannot be created ( even in children birthed) that must be imparted, This part of us character is spirit in the it is manifest as that part of the us whic like the words that ater used to describe it are indeed abstract.

In principle we appear in image and do in lokness and as you have presented; can do this two way manifesting an un-right way of living and or a righ way of living, in that we move out of character to retain out being as opposed to just knowledge and or wisdom alone.

In the dynamic we project this "being who we are in the "Name of Christ" His character or we do it( relate)  out of what we have experience otheres doing , and if pressed then we use there character , via the knowledge they have present to us and of if short in that , the we act on the wisdom they ( those who have raised us) has imparted. 

This understanding is found in your words...

But the second Adam, who is the life-giving Spirit, having become the lamb led to be slaughtered without any rebellion or complaint, fully examplified what means to be subdued.

He became in character, manifesting His empowered relationship with His Father and in this manner He retained His Image as being found in the Both the Image and Likeness as he presented both Knowledge and Wisdom via the powere of God ( the Holy Spirit) and it was a matter of His Faith.

This trust was and is there, therefore found in children when they are young and if raised in that then give and are given over to becomeing in Likness as how ( manifesting wisdom) the Son and the Father love one another in their relationship.

Matthew 18:3 (KJV) 
    And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.


 

Let me add " manifesting" Godliness!

So and I believe you are given to your interst are seeing that it is in deed a wise thing to do to judge according to how men do as opposed to what the know, as this judgement consides the fruts of there action over aperiod of time, justfying their patience.

Here is the wisdom and Likness of Our Lord in the matter. Where we come to an understanding or not via the knowledge we have in our individual experience He in His grace as it is manifested vai the Holy Spirit bears us up in witness ( Within) and we knwo we are "in im because we experienc the fruit of that same presence. And..Patience being one ot thos fruits, support the knowledge we have and we are able to apply this in our daily love our neighbor as we proceed in life.

In the experienc He does not leave us as  the religious minded required do and or He does not look down on us because we do not move to get our Healing for a mentally projected fear of not "belonging" to the groups actions projected in the Flesh.( a if you get up a clain it thing) as oposed to a peace filled powerful experienc of His presence with you personal heart or Mind.

Note your explanation:

The Bible says, knowing his time is short, the Devil will produce all kinds of false doctrines in the end time to produce distraction for the saints from recongnizing or realizing this Power, even bombard them with all minds of false supernatural signs and wonders. All these schemes serves only on purpose, that is try to produce a kind of godliness void of the real Power-the resurrection power of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Founded in patence, manifesting moderation, men and women given to work hard on their election are not decieved by this ongoing deceptive and un right appraoch mired in it's tradition drawing the attention of all involeved.

In this form or structure events... truth is projected and that is good, in that it make many knowledgable of Christ , yet because that's all there is to it... little have have the experience of His present ( He can do little except heal a few) because the deception projected of His doing as compared to His being all things to those in a personal relationship. Meaning that wisdom is a gift as well as healing!

Meaning whn the return home ( not being able to afford the ongoing event so as to stay there) they are left without any other wisdom than just go back to a church pastor and set, waiting for what happen over there; to happen where they live as a matter of law ( vai religious Knowledge so the form of all this action is manitained or duiplaicated.

Form... Yes as it all seems right , but no power.

Short on Likeness in that wisdom is manifested in being Like Christ, folks able to live in peace where they are , thaey retuen to looking for Image and ?

2 Cor. 2:11 (KJV) 
    Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

2 Cor. 11:14 (KJV) 
    And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2 Cor. 12:7 (KJV) 
    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

I find it interesting that Satan kills the prophets and would it be that out of this gifting  ( a prophets) he is exposed ( more so) that the other gifting, the Apostles now elimated,,, and so... he ( satan)  the free to function in the light of a great gathering as having decieved the pastors and teachers , just to work with the evanglists to add to the church at the expence of setting forth the wisdom needed to seek the Kingdom, let alone the righteousness of God...

And waht have you said?

Any manifestation of spiritual power that will not produce this Life and this Truth is doomed to fail us in terms of producing Godliness for us.

For us in the we are to love, when and where we are in what we do in tha Likenss of God!

Where it be here, alon with many others looking into this righteousness of Our Lord's Way, I am blessed by your work, and if you come to this place on the earth... I would be blessed by your presence in my house a manifestation of my home, in wich I am given to invite Our Lord. No form needed!

Bro Larry

 

 



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Posted By: Bojo Sun
Date Posted: 05/31/2008 at 9:24pm

Dear Larry:

I had a full day and just got back. I think I should reply you here even I am quite tired now. I have only slept about 10 hours in the past three days. The power of the Holy Spirit would not let me give to sleep. My mind is ok, but my body get weak. "The Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." It is so true.

Yes, for sure, you can call me "Bo" as many called me, or Sun(Son) as many call me. I am more than honored. Thank you for calling me that. Thank you.

I pray also that the Lord would indeed grant me some freedom to travel and give me the joy and honor to see you face to face. I can only imagine how I would stand or sit with you and enjoy you in quietness and rest.

I may not understand very well your writings or your thoughts. But I know your heart and your spirit. I know that you are humble and gracious, so devoted to the course of our dear Lord that you will hear Him intently and rejoice in His truth and wisdom. What a wonderful thing to see that in a living person!

You learned more than the reason, even the power and joy of laying down your life for another.  Yours is a precious gift to the Body of Christ, even your life in His image and likeness.

I love you, dear Larry. May the Lord richly bless you! All things work good for those love Him. I know we are blessed by hardships of life. I thank the Lord for those things as witnessing His life in you, alive and real.

Bring my best to yours. God be with you all...

Yours Forever
Sun

 

 

 

 

 




Posted By: Larry Denton
Date Posted: 06/01/2008 at 1:07pm

 

Hey Bo....

Thanks for your kindness both  found and shared in the gGace you have experienced in Our King ...Who is Jesus Christ...

"It's like Him in His Likness!"

Well... rest we can and in doing so move in our commness vai contentment and Godliness...

1 Tim. 6:6 (KJV) 
    But godliness with contentment is great gain.

And that is my hope for you and all here that we have great gain in our understanding, so that we may precieve the Kingdom of God.

I too am a bit tired, so please do take your time , so tha Our

Father may add to our work and it is my hope that you feel frre to mail me if you have have question and or wish to aid and add to my thoughs centered on righteousness.

Psalm 89:16 (KJV) 
    In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.

It seems to me that I sence a contentement in you and perhaps this is from your Expereince in the Spirit via your transition in Heart / Mind. I should like very much to hear your story.

I find that as you have said these things are there ( personal experiences of being caught up) ... but wisdom  must be used in ones explanation, less the expereince becomes a stumbling block for some, in that they render themself un-important because they have not had such experiences.

Many are a bit taken back when I say that my expereince was a matter of both love and my dire need to be saved , and if I were to count the experience vaild on my knowledge of God then I would be the least , and that all should count themselves blessed if they never have a vision or dream, in that righteousnees, is the end results of those thing, and if they are given to seek the Kingdom and His righteousnees, then they blessed and perhaps more so than those of us who needed such things because of our lostness.

Again do not be concerned about understanding my work and or writings, but  count as I do on ones patiences to work on those things that are foundation for the peace of God.

 In that... He desire those to enter that peace, manifested as a rest in trusting Him and or acknowledging Him each day, being who we are and doing outr of this same love He and His Fater has for one another.

Hebrews 12:15 (KJV) 
    Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

This is the ability to abide, as it matter of Character in that Character is manifested in one life as kindness among those and to those that either have no understanding and or a mis understanding of what one both feels and sees in himself and others...

Godlineees is manifested in Contentiment , just as contentement is the product of Godliness, and some give them selves to desireing one at expence of the other in there much doing of religious things.

So we have our work to dived the word !

2 Tim. 2:15 (KJV) 
    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

And this is to Him as many will not desire His approval having gone after the approval of men, and in doing so fail at the turh in that when it is divided it is founded upon both wisdom and knowledge.

Many eat on this tree of knowledge and yet, it make them into something , but without the grace obtained in a relationship with our Father in Heaven via His Son's Work it is notheing but powerless form, and that form , founded on the form of worldy knowledge is foundational for death, as it is in need of power to have life.

I will look foward as I do with many here in this  seeking of the Kindom with you...

Hebrews 4:11-16 (KJV) 
    Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.  Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.  Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

And it is our need as servants to respond to the need of Our King. Many are short on Understanding  and for the like of knowledge the they are not able to find the wisdom ( I say a current and working) wisdom need to live and they fall in brokenheartedness.in being rich in flesh and yet unable to rest in the Spirit, walking each day being content with that which they find themselves...

The is the essence of Unity is it not?

Romans 2:7 (KJV) 
    To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Well proceeds the doing does it not?

Later Bro Larry ........ and main me  mailto:prophilion@yahoo.com - prophilion@yahoo.com ....  about your experienc when it seems good...


 


 



 



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