Hi, Ron!

Nicely put. I think I would actually push some of this a bit farther than you have here, especially the issue of ‘mature’ sons. To us, mature means independent – a complete anathema in the Kingdom. We are not qualified yet to even imagine what a mature son would look like. I know I’ll get hammered about Jesus being our example, but after thirty-five years of listening to sermons and reading theology I know how broadly that example can be interpreted. I don’t think that His example is really understood, yet.

If we work backward from the presenting lie that you have listed here, “God’s love is soft comforting, acceptance.” Which leads to, “You don’t have to change.” Which leads to, “you can remain independent.” We finally end up at the original lie, “You will be as God; separate and equal...”

As you pointed out, quite the opposite was our Father’s intention in creating us as His children. We are first of all to be insatiable in receiving His love, and then like a mighty flood in releasing it back to Him and to the world around us. We are intended to join into the community and ‘dance of Love’ of the Trinity Itself, and thereby extend it to all creation. The break-down in all of this is our own inability to actually receive His love.

His love never changes; it is the bedrock of His nature. As such it is not simply emotion or feelings; it is actual spiritual ‘stuff’ which is transferred between Him and us, and between His children. This being said, it cannot be received just any old way we please. It requires certain things of the heart to receive.

This is where our problems really begin. The life most of us live is based on certain principles that are accumulated over the years, but often never stated openly. Things like, “I will never be hurt again…”, “I will be strong (or rich or popular) so I will be safe…” are taken as lessons learned from the pain of growing up in a fallen world. They knit together into a self-centered worldview, which leads to a self centered life. Will God afflict someone to breakthrough this illusion? Actually, I don’t think He has to. I’ve lived that way long enough to know how dry, lonely, and brutal that life is. Yet, the thought that He would lean hard on this flimsy lie to hasten its destruction can only be viewed as mercy.

There are two jailers who protect this prison we build for ourselves. The first is unforgiveness, especially of our parents. They were given by God to teach us how to be loved by God, Unfortunately, they didn’t know how to be loved themselves, and did a less than perfect job of caring for and teaching us. Granting them grace and turning back to the source of love to receive what He originally intended is critical. The second jailer is the vows we have made as a result of the hurts we have not forgiven. Without turning from the decisions for independence we made based on a lie, we will not have hearts open to His love.

The Good News is we do not have to tackle this alone. Once we know (Alas for how long it took for me to hear the full truth in today’s church environment!) the full story of our Father’s intent, we enter into an ‘ask and receive’ mode. Do you want to come home? Ask – you will receive! The same Holy Spirit who was given to awaken you to sonship, is the one who will shine in your heart to cleanse you of unforgiveness and independence, and He will bring you into such love as you cannot imagine before starting this journey. Eph. 3; 14-21

Blessings my friend!

mark

It's observable that very often those who have been most damaged by life are the ones who find it most difficult to receive healing. 

Its the revelation of God's grace which brings healing.

Amen Mark, Very well said. This has continued to grow and to be refined to me more clearly since the original article.

Ron

You've brought a plate-full here Ron,

At the base or root of this tree (of knoweldge) is the wanting control over. It comesforth in many forms and He will lay the axe to the root. We'll do things independent of Holy Spirit, not being led of and these can all be seemingly `good things.' We may see something within the scriptures and quote it in or over a situation etc. but it is not a rhema, Spirit breathed word for that moment, time, situation, person etc. We know we are not to be led by need or emotion, as you shared ` human compassion' but be taught & led of Holy Spirit in each moment, situation, etc.. And so we put ourselves in the place of God in the not being taught( hearing) and led of Holy Spirit. We oust Him and put our-self on the throne. When it comes down to it, His Love and faith( trust, which walk hand in hand) is not yet fully formed. When I think of this, pride goes before a fall, how great is His Love to allow us to fall! You shared quite sometime ago this, and it is truth...

"The pain we thought would destroy us will lead to the reality of holiness that we seek.

Painful loss that can never be recovered brings deep grief. Loss of that which I treasure above all else, that which is closest to my heart and most important to my life leaves me a broken person without the desire to go on living. My broken heart fills with pain moment by moment. There remains no strength within me to recover myself. The suffering has overwhelmed me. In my deep darkness, I close my eyes to die AND THERE YOU ARE MY LORD, MY GOD. YOUR LOVE WASHES OVER ME AND SATURATES MY BODY, SOUL, AND SPIRIT. I am melted into You, and my empty lifeless soul is filled with YOU my love, my LORD, my GOD.

And here I shall forever remain a broken man with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, a man humble and meek beyond death, living only in YOU as YOU live YOUR resurrected life where I once lived. For it is no longer I, but Christ. YOU LORD are the revived life of my spirit. YOU LORD are the life of my heart. In YOU LORD do I live and move and have my being."

Well said, Ron. I think your adjustments help to capture the loving motivation of our Father. While our hearts are still captives of shame, it is very difficult to grasp what is happening to us in difficult times. Until we are actually touched by His love, we respond with fear that we are being punished. His perfect love drives out that fear and positions us to endure for discipline’s sake. Recalling that discipline is the repetition of a difficult task until it becomes our nature to do the task has helped me endure.

Lately, I have found myself fascinated by this text:

Phi 3:7  But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Phi 3:8  More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, Phi 3:9  and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Phi 3:10  that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; Phi 3:11  in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Phi 3:12  Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Phi 3:13  Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, Phi 3:14  I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul has experienced the violent death of that old tree, that old way of existing, which was his in his life before Christ. In his words, it was just rubbish. Good riddance to bad trash… But, beyond this he has found an ambition to enter into the sufferings of Christ to the point of being conformed to the likeness of His death.

What a challenge!

To be so gripped by the steadfast and unquestionable love of our Father that one can endure on behalf of others their own suffering… Isn’t that what Jesus did for me? It was my sin He was beaten and killed for in order to bring me home to our Father.

I am so challenged by the idea that as we are changed by His love, and see that all hostility and punishment ended at the Cross, as we are able to surrender to hardship as a tool in our loving Father’s hand, we will also be transformed in our thinking about the suffering of others. Our judging from the objective outside will cease, and we will seek to enter into it with them as an agent of our Father’s love – bearing the same pain they experience so that His love can be seen in the midst of the pain. Then eyes blinded by the tears of this world will see, and ears deafened by the devils mocking will hear His voice saying, “This is the way; walk in it…”

Well, clearly my thinking on this is at an early stage. I’m not sure if I’ve actually communicated what I am seeing in this. But, you do provoke me to thought, and for that I am grateful.

Blessings my friend!

mark

Ron you said:

“Not everyone is at the place at this time of becoming grown up sons, sons who will move on the earth as Jesus doing the works that He did and greater works than He did on earth in His earthly body.”

Jesus has commanded (pretty strong word) us to:

“…preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.” (Matthew 10:7-8a)

You also said:

“The objective and destination God has for His children is for them to become what we have never been: the mature sons of God who are as Christ is in the world without mixture and inseparable from God.”

What God is impressing upon me more and more, is the need for the true knowledge of God.  Whilst I agree totally that “knowing” can only come through intimacy with the Holy Spirit, I’m also observing in myself and others how areas of deception can remain hidden if we only rely on this way.

I’m discovering that by meticulously studying Jesus’ life on earth, areas of false beliefs about God are being exposed in me.  (My article on “Building a proper kind of alter to the Lord our God” highlights some of the false notions that have been exposed.)

In order to be as Christ is in the world without mixture we need true knowledge of Him.  This means taking every thought captive and comparing it to the truth of Christ as revealed to us through the gospel accounts.  Paul describes our false ideas about God as strong-holds and they need to be pulled down.  He was saying this as he defended himself as a true apostle (2 Corinthians 10).

2 Corinthians 10:5

[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One)

(emphasis mine)

I know I keep banging on about this, but I feel its crucial to where we’re at at the moment.

Please have patience with me also as I try and explain, maybe I'm not saying it right yet.

Let us not get deceived into believing we can do this without testing everything against the true knowledge of God, that is revealed in the life of Jesus, as recorded for us in the gospel accounts.  Let's not fall in to the cunning trap of the enemy, like Eve did, and think we can go it alone without referring to God's Word.  There are deep treasures being dug up by the fore-runners.  Let us take heed of the mistakes of the Israelites and resolve not to make the same mistakes again, in order to prevent our harvest being stolen. (see Judges 6 - the story of Gideon overcoming the Midianites.)

Dear Brother Ron,

Growing up on a farm near Garland,Tx near the East Fork of the Trinity River there was on thing that I feared the most. Spiders, snakes, scorpions, among many other kinds of varmits, I was always  aware od  by not in shear fear of.

What did lived right behind our house, on the edge of our big garden. It lived vai the plow, fire and hoe in a spot about five by twenty feet long , as short , rich in green color, as little plants.

 I was warned from the time to time  (I can remembere to this day) to give heed to these harmless looking plants as they did not appear like the larger varities with big spines or of needles did.

But as life goes so , you no from time to time, in doing chores and or playing I would find myself in the patch, having fallen down, eye to eye with  them !

To this day, I have only one word that fits the experience and that is fire.

Friends and cousins would come from the big city and  right out of the car I would take them to the patch and tell them. "See this patch of little weeds, well those are stinging netteles and  fire crackers and gas , will not hurt like they hurt!"

Note.. that I use the word hurt in that it's pain by fire  in and of itself bad, but then there is that inter and on going  horrible hurt.

Years later, like you to some degree  I too would suffer the effect of operation the had gone south, so much so a cardio-vascular team would restart my heart three time, and when I became conscious I would experienc what I could imagine a man setting in fifty-five gallon barrel of gasoling on fire.

In that fire death become irrelavant and what does ...is you want out, and so it goes with mandkind, alway looking for a way out, even at the expence of outers and then there are those who seen to see, and understand how it is that fire is taking a way a life and run into it to save another, given to trust something within them , that overcomes fear , being something before doing something!

But , speaking of the persons who run into the fire , I do now think they run into the fire... minding the fire, but it the knowing in spirit that another , is being reduced to ashes and what  is calling out is one spirit... that which is left and true and it is an eternal and understood, but feared cry in which even the religious talk about but run from.

This fear a matter of knowing yes, but more so understanding, and in that understanding one moves . In this he or she becomes something within themselves , in that they experienc the wisdom of  God , in that death is no longer revelant.

But the fire is there!

And it seems like it is an eternal thing... like a place via time one can get into and cannot get back or out of.

Luke 3:16-17 (KJV) 
    John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:  Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

I am sure the scripture above containing the small word "and" is , was and will be a question for great minds in ivory towers of theology, but to me and (and means and) and to be baptised in God Love manifested in the presence of the Holy Spirit is one things, but the fire is another. Thereby in faith we come for both healing from it and wisdom to keep form it as this kind of spiritula fire is unquenchable.

Is this a contradiction, and I would say yes, in that every one likes the ideal of God's love for us, but why the Fire?

Why Fire , no... I think, so as to ask Our Lord: " For what reason is there this fire?"

Song 8:6 (KJV) 
    Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.

And...

Proverbs 26:20-21 (KJV) 
    Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.  As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.

Did not John the Baptist prophetic words fortell of something that would burn away the hearts of contentious men and women, given to strife, in that someone was coming and now in our day , some one is returning?

Having said all of the above, Here is as scripture, as it has come to me in the Lord and I believe it is for you. You in that all of what you are speaking of here is a matter of  bothe the love of God and the fire of being corrected.

Be encouraged our Brother!

Luke 13:31-35 (KJV) 
    The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.  And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

And in your prophetic stand , the Pharisees will tell you... to get out!

"Come away form the fire as it is killing others and if you stand here it will kill you!"

And it will come to you mind, I have see the casting out of devils and experienced the healing power of the Holy Spirit, but who am I to run from the greater fire that is coming , for it will bring a perfection in me and all those I love, and it is the desire of my heart! I know what befalls the prophets, never the less it is before me to gather with Our Ling Who is Christ...all that call upon Him.

Many call but cannt gather and it is for this reason their houses or worship will become houses of desolation. Many can not see Him now, but He is here and and throught the fire we come , perfected as it is a matter of Righteousness and it is in His love that we are not consumed. 

In this we come, not of His Name but in His Name!

He in Name ... is hallowed in that He is found in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,goodness, faith, meekness,and temperance and we who have walked with Him in the fire have tasted the same fire in the flesh and through this pain the affections and lust there have fell away and we see the Kingdom coming!

Mark shared :

 ...of the enemy’s deception regarding the love of the Father, “God’s love is soft comforting, acceptance.” Which leads to, “You don’t have to change.” Which leads to, “you can remain independent.” We finally end up at the original lie, “You will be as God; separate and equal...”
 

Take heed to this word as it is prophetic, in that the gate is wide for those who look for any other way to come to the Kingdom , avoideing any Gatheing where there is the "fire" of conviction, set in and among those Our Lord has gifted to both cast and heal, so that all may be perfected...

1 John 2:5 (KJV) 
    But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 4:12 (KJV) 
    No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Kinship is kendled in the fire!

Thank you brother Ron... and all gathered sharing here...  as folks in the fire are fire, in that they in their prophetic warmth , also being in their being, bring light to the gathering of souls.

"It's the third day!"

Bro. Larry

Hello Mandy,

Thank you for your loving concern.

Mandy wrote:

Quote: Ron you said: “Not everyone is at the place at this time of becoming grown up sons, sons who will move on the earth as Jesus doing the works that He did and greater works than He did on earth in His earthly body.”   Jesus has commanded (pretty strong word) us to: “…preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.” (Matthew 10:7-8a)   You also said:   “The objective and destination God has for His children is for them to become what we have never been: the mature sons of God who are as Christ is in the world without mixture and inseparable from God.”   What God is impressing upon me more and more, is the need for the true knowledge of God.  Whilst I agree totally that “knowing” can only come through intimacy with the Holy Spirit, I’m also observing in myself and others how areas of deception can remain hidden if we only rely on this way.   I’m discovering that by meticulously studying Jesus’ life on earth, areas of false beliefs about God are being exposed in me.  (My article on “Building a proper kind of alter to the Lord our God” highlights some of the false notions that have been exposed.)   In order to be as Christ is in the world without mixture we need true knowledge of Him.

It is good to see you growing in the Lord as you spend time interacting here on these forums. There is lots of fresh new spiritual ground that you are walking into and beginning to receive understanding and experience will come as you continue to receive and be edified.

There are levels of relating to God in the Spirit that you may be just beginning to investigate and I am sure that can cause a bit of uneasiness as you look for boundaries and consider the terrain of the new spiritual environment.

Before looking in more detail at the above quote let me be sure I know what you are trying to say. Let me know if I am missing it. I think you are speaking of the importance of having knowledge of God from the Bible and contrasting that to knowing Him in the Spirit.

Let's think about that for a moment. Would it be more real and more intimate to read a book about your best friend or to spend time with your best friend getting to know them personally? Would you know your friend better from the practical experience of interacting with him or her or reading the book.

In relating with your friend you can ask questions and get direct answers. Now let's further suppose that the friend had written the book. Do you think that anything the friend told you or what you experienced in personal communication would be different from what the friend had written? I think you would agree that there would be nothing in what the friend would say that would contradict what was written in the book the friend had written. However, you would get to know the friend much better and share intimate hugs dining together and other personal things that could cause you to share a deeper more real love relationship based on understanding and experiencing much more detail than what the book had said. Yet, if you have never been able to spend time with your friend the things written are the best way you have of  knowing about your friend.

Knowing God is greater than knowing of God. Before we come to know Him in a real intimate relationship knowing of Him is wonderful. Many people who love all they know of God from reading about Him have a glorious and wonderful experience ahead of them in moving into a greater relationship with Him in the Holy Spirit.

Please know that myself and all of the people who are regular participants and have been for years are serious Bible people. Most of them have spent many years in the Bible and are grounded in the Bible word. Even Laurence Lilly who is in his 80s has spent many years in the Bible and has great knowledge and experience in it.

I discovered the Bible 54 years ago when I was 21 years old and have spent much time in reading meditating and studying the precious words of the Bible. I was thoroughly discipled in Bible Churches which are associated with Dallas Theological Seminary. Teaching was what we were all about. We had very little of the Holy Spirit or what most would call preaching but we had hour after hour every week of Bible teaching. In those early years my prayers were to a God that seemed up in heaven somewhere but the Bible was right with me. If you read the books that I have written you will find that some of them are about one third scripture. What you are seeing is not a lack of Bible it is a fulfillment of what the Bible is saying.

Again stop me if I am wrong about what you mean in this next comment.

Hi Ron,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

It seems that I’ve communicated rather badly what I’m trying to say.

I'll start with your second point. 

Jesus has commanded (pretty strong word) us to:

“…preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.” (Matthew 10:7-8a)

The point I was wanting to make is that this is what we are being prepared to be doing.  It is what the church was set up to be doing and is being prepared to fulfill.  We haven't been able to because we're not in that place ourselves yet.  It was not a criticism of anyone, but an observation that we as a body are not fulfilling our commanded duty because we're not ready yet.  My own concern that I’m not fulfilling all of it yet, is driving me closer to God to be made ready.

Now your first point.

My comments were made upon a general observation across all streams of the church I have had and currently have contact with.  They were not directed at any individual specifically.  

I see a lot of people in the ‘pentecostal’ and ‘charismatic’ style streams who have embraced the guidance of the Holy Spirit and are seeking intimacy with Him but are not checking everything they’re hearing or feeling against scripture, and interestingly - they’re not maturing.  So every thought that comes into their heads is assumed to be from the Holy Spirit even when it very clearly does not match up with God’s written word.  When we rely totally on our intuition (like Eve) and do not check it against what God has actually said (which Adam knew) we are open to deception.  Even Jesus, when He was tempted in the desert, referred back to the written word.

My concern is for less mature Christians, not those who are already well grounded in the Bible.

Mandy

Ok, I’m going to have one more stab at this because I’m not going to have regular access to a computer after today (unless something changes).

We know that we have been commanded to:

“…preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.” (Matthew 10:7-8a)

Ron, you asked me if I’m doing this.

In answer to this, I regularly preach the message of the Kingdom being near, I regularly heal the sick and occasionally cast out demons. I haven’t cleansed any lepers yet (there aren’t too many around in my neck of the woods) and I haven’t raised any dead yet (but then I haven’t tried yet).

I work with a healing ministry which has a higher percentage success rate than Todd Bentley’s.  The success rate has been increasing over the years and at our most recent healing day we healed just under 95% of those who asked.

We do not see the volume of miracles seen at Lakeland because we don’t feel called into that type of ministry.  We are called to equip the church through teaching and training in order for them to go out and fulfil the Great Commission themselves.

So, I can say with confidence that we have learned some stuff, which I am trying to pass on to you guys (albeit very badly by the seems of it).

8 years ago, before my involvement with them, the people here, in frustration and distress that they weren’t helping everyone who wanted healing, admitted that what they knew didn’t work very well and cried out to Jesus for Him to show them how He did it.

Now it takes a very humble heart to do this.  Hence the need for humility to be forged in the sons of God.

They were prepared to throw out everything they had learned about healing and listen to Jesus start teaching them from scratch.

He took them to the gospels and started revealing how He did it.  What they discovered was that it was very different from everything they had ever heard or learnt previously.  They had to demolish strongholds of wrong beliefs and have their minds renewed, again this required a lot of humility.

So, the message we present is not “Come and get some” but “Come and have your mind renewed”.

(It would be helpful for you read my comments at “Building a proper kind of alter to the Lord our God”, to get a better understanding of what we've learned.)

One of the major shifts was from seeking to give people a power encounter, to seeking to give them a grace encounter.  I point to the corresponding increase in fruit if you are questionning this.

Generally speaking, it seems that those in the ‘pentecostal’ and ‘charismatic’ streams are having the most difficulty dealing with this paradigm shift.  There are deeply entrenched mindsets which many are reluctant to let go of.

Many in the more traditional streams are ‘seeing’ it when this teaching is presented to them and they are receiving it and forging forward in preparing the church to fulfill the Great Commission.

Please take the time to re-read all the things I’ve said, and ask Jesus to confirm if what I’m saying is right.

Blessings,

Love Mandy 

Oh yes, I almost forgot to say, this is the ministry's website if you want to look further:

http://www.jacobswell.org.uk/ - Don't be put off if its not you're usual style, truth is truth, whatever the packaging.  This too requires humility.

Yes, Mandy I have read all you posts and am in agreement with most of it. Yes, the Bible Word is vital to growing spiritual Christians who are NOT realy through their cross experience and are prone to hearing other voices and not knowing the difference. Yes, the charasmatic stuff is like that and infiltrated with mixture. And yes scripture is vital as a schoolmaster to disiciple them with truth and correction. Yes, there must be a maturing of people who are called to be forerunner sons of God. Yes, it is great that you are becoming one of these mature sons and are doing the works of healing, deliverance and miracles. All that is the way things are.

Pleas go back and reread the final edition of the article that this thread is about. God is not speaking to us about where we the church HAVE BEEN AND ARE NOW. HE IS SPEAKING TO WHERE WE ARE GOING. Which is a people of His kingdom bringing forth the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven. The mixture in church and people must go and we must allow ourselves to go through the taking up of our personal cross and allowing the LOVE of God to further purify and make holy the people of God.

Yes, this is normal maturity for all of God's people to become duplicates of Jesus sons of God. At this point not all the people are willing and not all the people are free of religious deceptions. However, some are coming through and becoming grown up sons to lead many more sons to glory. Full grown sons walk in the SPIRIT. They hear and obey the WORD of God. They abide in the spiritual realm in Jesus and the life giving Spirit of Christ abides in them. There is none of the flaky stuff that has been going on in the charasmatic church of the past and NONE OF THE LUKEWARM RELIGIOUS DEATH OF THE SLEEPING DENOMINATIONAL CHURCHES.

This is a new / old place. A place where God has from the beginning sought for His people to walk and live. The church of the past centuries missed it because the Bible word was studied and interpreted and translated by men WITHOUT THE FULL MEASURE OF WALKING IN THE SPIRIT. Intelectual discernenment of the Bible leads to gross error. Most all cults and deceived religious people read, study and quote the Bible. Without the HOLY SPIRIT who wrote the Bible and Who is still speaking to people today it is impossible to get truth from the Bible. Demons love to quote the Bible. The Bible is good but it is NOT GOD. It is a message from the Holy Spirit and is profitable and foundational for training and reproff to bring us to Christ Who by His SPIRIT can live within and instrucht His mature sons. The Holy Spirit will never contradict Himself. The truth wriiten in the Bible is the same truth He will speak in much greater and deeper reality than the written word in turly intimately relating to the TURTH Jesus Christ.

Yes, I know the church is NOT There and we must have maturing gifted sons to teach and demonstrate the love, wisdom, power, and glory of Christ Jesus and lead them unto a practical cross experience of dying to self and becoming only alive as the resurrected life of Christ abides within them.

Praise God for all He is doing. Mandy please experience the Kingdom Growth Guides on this site.

Much love and appreciation.

Ron

 Ron this may help ?!

Zechariah 3

Vision of the High Priest

 1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”
3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the Angel.
4 Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, “Take away the filthy garments from him.” And to him He said, “See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes.”
5 And I said, “Let them put a clean turban on his head.”
So they put a clean turban on his head, and they put the clothes on him. And the Angel of the LORD stood by.

The Coming Branch

   
6 Then the Angel of the LORD admonished Joshua, saying, 7 “Thus says the LORD of hosts:


      ‘ If you will walk in My ways,
      And if you will keep My command,
      Then you shall also judge My house,
      And likewise have charge of My courts;
      I will give you places to walk
      Among these who stand here.
       8 ‘ Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
      You and your companions who sit before you,
      For they are a wondrous sign;
      For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH.
       9 For behold, the stone
      That I have laid before Joshua:
      Upon the stone are seven eyes.
      Behold, I will engrave its inscription,’
      Says the LORD of hosts,

      ‘ And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
       10 In that day,’ says the LORD of hosts,

      ‘ Everyone will invite his neighbor
      Under his vine and under his fig tree.’”

 Joshua 24:25-27

Hi Ron,

Thank you I will take time to read your Kingdom Growth Guides.  I first came across them a couple of years ago, that's why I came back to this site while I had a few clear days of free access to a computer.

When I said about re-reading my writings, I was in fact referring to what I've written in the "Building a proper alter to the Lord our God" topic.  In there I give a  commentary on what I observe happening in the current climate, from the viewpoint of what I've learnt about healing which has catapulted me into a ministry in which we are seeing upto 95% success rate.  We're not 100% yet, but we're way ahead of most of the church.  We have unearthed some deep treasure and are trying to pass it on to other fore-runners for them to run with it also.  This is for the upbuilding of the church (global).

It is very much about WHERE WE ARE GOING NOW!

Much love and respect,

Mandy

 INTIMACY:
  The Schulamite

  By Dr. Kluane Spake

The lonely and unhappy 17 year old King was very board with his life. Everything in his palace was made of gold. He may have yawned and said, “There’s no silver, or bronze -- just gold.” Everywhere he looked was the same ol’ thing -- gold walls, gold tables, and boring gold dishes. Yet, he was alone.

Everyone wanted young King Solomon’s favor. But, he had no real relationship in his whole life. In fact, he later had 300 wives and 700 concubines and he found no happiness from them. How would he know if anyone cared for him, or if they were after his money? Insincere associations were doubtlessly a way of life. Yet, this day he rode over the meadow fields and found new meaning in his life.

The First Encounter:
Let’s imagine the story… Once upon a time, this young, barefooted girl worked out in the fields. Her brown skin glistened as she worked in the garden sun. Her skirt was probably tied up into her belt so she could move easily. She had her own garden to tend and care for (just like we have our own spiritual garden). This was a gorgeous day. She touched the fresh leaves and smelled the fragrances of the air. The breeze billowed grain sheaves into waves upon the hillside. Suddenly she noticed a young stranger riding by on a white horse… hummm, who could that cute guy be? The white horse reared up to a quick stop beside her and the rider said, “Hey there, how ya’ doing?” The Schulamite turned away to blush and sigh. But inside herself, she thought, “I’m in love!”

She stands in wonder, just wanting to melt in his eyes. He walks over to her and it’s love at first sight. She whispers shyly of sweet nothings. She doesn’t know that he has a kingdom of gold -- she loves him for who he is. She loves the fact that he loves her. And, he responds.

We can imagine them skipping around the meadows, playing tag, and picking daisies, “He loves me, he loves me not.” Garlands of flowers spring back from under their feet. Not knowing his identity, she sighs, “Your name is like ointment poured forth.” Maybe she looks in his face and coyly says, “I tell you what, you are the cutest thing I ever saw.” And when they kissed, she said, “Your kisses, they’re sweeter than wine.”

God looks for us to not adore the power He has, nor the power He gives, but rather who He is. Out of righteous coupling emerges Godly passion. Our worship isn’t supposed to be an out-of-control frenzy of but rather a passionate response from our transformed nature. Passion has been defined as “a feeling by which the mind is powerfully effected or moved.” Passion moves the mind and the will to action. It’s not a war-hoop of clamoring, gonging noises, but an interchange of fellowship, and communion. It’s a two-way connection, when we long for Him and He longs for us. He says, “I’m drawing you,” and then we run to Him. Through this exchange of giving and taking we continue to serve and please Him with our lives. This concept again is “koininea,” the reciprocation and reply to worship. God calls us to know Him in “Koininea” which is Godly fellowship and intercourse.

By understanding their passion, we can continue our story. The Shulamite frolics across the mountain taunting “I bet you can’t catch me,” so he chases her all the more. Then, she accidentally runs right into the palace. She stops cold and stares at the columns of gold, chairs of gold, and rafters of gold encircling above and sobs, “Are you the king? I’m so dirty and brown, and my clothes are filthy... I didn’t know who you were.” Have you noticed that when we see who God is, then we see who we are? (Woe is me, I am undone.)

Then Solomon strokes her raven hair and says, “O my dove, in the clefts of the rock.” Are we there in that cleft? Moses hid in the cleft of the rock when the glory passed by, just like we hide in Jesus. Solomon says, “O my dove, in the clefts of the rock, In the secret places of the cliff (stairs KJV), Let me see your countenance, Let me hear your voice; For your voice is sweet, And your countenance is lovely.”

You may answer, “God, don’t look at me, my dress is all dirty, sin has made me filthy. I have stains on me,” He says, “I just want to see your face. Just let me hear you talk.” Imagine, He wants to know all about you and everything you think about. He knows every hair on your head and says, “Don’t pull back from me. I think you’re beautiful. You’re my chosen one.”

As he caresses her, she blurts, “Oh, Solomon, I’m a nobody, a nothing. Why you would even chase me around the field? What do you see in me?” Then she buries her head in his shoulder, “I want to love you. I don’t care if you’re king or not. I don’t want things. I want Who You are.” I want who You are!

Her response could have been, “Oh goody, I’m going to get ten million drachma and drive a shiny new Mercedes chariot! And, just think of the presents!” But only His presence, (not presents) mattered. That’s why Solomon wanted to give her everything He had; shelter, security and safety. That’s the picture of being “In Christ.” If we’re not within this cleft of the Rock, then we’re not in the presence of those gathered unto Him -- the church.

He doesn’t care how soiled our past has been, He says we’re acceptable. He knows the mistakes we’ve made and that we’re going to make. We don’t surprise Him. He loves us anyway. The amazing thing is, He accepted us before we changed, and that’s why we’re able to embrace future change. His acceptance is more precious than diamonds, more costly than fine gold. He pours His presence into you right now, imparting the gifts of His Spirit.

The world eagerly waits to see if you really have a relationship with God. Learn to hide in that secret place until others can receive from you. There will be the time when you can say, “I have something to tell you. I’ve seen with the eyes of my heart, and I know Jesus can make your life different.”

King Solomon wrote 1005 songs; only one of which remains for us to study. Only the Shulamite pleased him and lingered in his memory. Solomon writes of the only true love of his life, a story that vividly portrays the dynamic church in these final hours. Their names, Solomon and the Schulamite both mean peace. He describes her beauty as awesome as an army with banners. Together, we comprise that bride who’s face is like Mt. Carmel (7:5). The bride shows herself as the ultimate revelation of creation, the beautiful, multi-ethnic integration of redeemed believers from every country, people, and nation. Paul says that even our uncomely parts are vital to this complex wonder. In that wholeness and togetherness, we’re integrated into the great mystery of the body functioning as one.

We are intermingled with one another as our individual rivers stream into the heavenly city. Suddenly the eminent conclusion of the Gospel age breaks to reveal the Bride-maturing from adolescence at last, with no restrictions as to race, class, or gender. Having been lodged in the womb of the morning (Ps. 110), we’re the candidates for the breaking of a new day. With unveiled eyes we stand breathlessly before Jesus, who glorified the Father by finishing His work. In an ongoing process, He shares with us the glory that He had, and He glorifies Himself IN us (Jn. 17). The glory once lost returns, the ark becomes reestablished and contained within us.

The ecstasy of His nearness brings wholeness. He gives us hidden manna, and we become concealed in the cleft of the rock -- sealed within the secret places of the stairs (Song of Songs 2:14). We’re children of God's old age, of the last days, clothed in the splendor of His might. The taste of the kisses of His lips evoke our internal passion of unabashed praise -- because He transcends all others. He releases us to be the redeemed remnant, arrows of destiny, firepots and spearheads of God. We destroy the evil kingdom and our feet are upon the footstool of His enemies. There we worship, at the finished defeat of all evil. Surely, we’re the threshing machine, the battle-ax, and the children of the Third day. We’re the expression of His character on this earth that proclaims the finished work of the cross.

Song of Solomon asks who this is that comes out of the wilderness as pillars of smoke (6). Why, it’s you, it’s me! We’re in His likeness. The “Light of the world” calls us lights -- a city set on the hill. Clothed with a dazzling armor of light, the sons of the Light-Giver exhibit His character and illuminate the lightlessness. Deep calls unto deep as we draw out of the heavenlies to receive a Salvation that completes our purpose, and perfects that which concerns us. We, the shimmering city, stand as a fortress of protection that illuminates the way for others. We arise to dispel the ignorance of the darkened past and display (manifest) His grandeur.

“Come closer,” He calls, “let me show you who I Am.” “Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken... But thou shalt be called Hepzibah” (Is.62:4). I will adorn you with honor and clothe you with heavenly light. You shall be called “Hepzibah,” meaning, “My delight is in you.” Certainly, this illustration restores the pre-fallen Eden-paradise (Eden also means place of “delight”) relationship with God. Delight yourself in Him and He rejoices (vs. 5). Stand in totality, trusting only in Him -- without excuse, without reaction or anger, and without looking for acceptance from others.

We accomplish His purposes - becoming a new race that stewards this earth -- in Love. A Glorious church, not of ourselves, but because of Him. Winter ends. We find our Lover no longer hiding behind the lattice - because nothing separates us anymore. His superior, unchanging and eternal priesthood seals up inside us, and we become enveloped in Him. Because of His poured out blood, we are fused together into Him, flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone (having united with one another as one with Him, being In Him and He in us, Eph. 5:30).

It’s time to rouse up into the time for love. We awaken to taste His lips that drip with myrrh. Fresh oil gushes from our understanding. We, the comparable helpmeet, are bound to Him eternally with a covenant of LOVE. We’re the epitome of God's desire, faint with love, and unified by the Spirit of God. Jesus is our all in all.



Adapted from author’s book, “From Enmity to Equality”