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SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP IN A NATURAL WORLD

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Forum Name: VOICE OF PROPHECY - Prophetic Words
Forum Discription: This forum is specifically for prophetic words and the discussion of those words.
URL: http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=23494
Printed Date: 01/17/2017 at 12:02pm


Topic: SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP IN A NATURAL WORLD

Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Subject: SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP IN A NATURAL WORLD
Date Posted: 08/27/2008 at 8:08am

Spiritual Leadership in a Natural World

By Ron McGatlin

What is spiritual leadership and how does it function in a natural world?

Spiritual leadership is that which continuously flows from Spirit God in spiritual heaven toward earth to be received by mankind. Leadership flows directly from God through the Holy Spirit to those who have received the gift of the ability to hear and see in the spiritual realm. Spiritual leadership involves intimately knowing God and receiving from Him his wisdom, love and power and his will regarding specific situations. Intimately relating to God is the first and primary requirement for leaders. Spiritual communication includes speaking to and hearing from God. There are many voices that try to speak into the hearts of believers. The voice of self, other people and other spirits seek to lead the minds and hearts of people.

Spiritual leadership in the natural world is the process of bringing that which is spoken from God in heaven into the natural world for people to observe and receive through their natural ears and eyes to bring change in their spirits toward hearing and obeying the will of God. The goal of this process is the mind and spirit of Christ Jesus abiding within all who will come and place themselves into a position of receiving. Christ lives in His people by the Holy Spirit.

Christ Jesus abiding within mature believers (elders) leads those who will follow the Jesus in them. My personal belief is that God will equip available people with the gifting and specific empowerment needed to meet the needs of brothers and sister in the Body.

The paradox arises that we are told to follow only Jesus and also to honor those who lead. Yes, we receive from the Jesus in one another and will follow Jesus in anyone in whom He abides and empowers to guide or lead in any given situation. We can follow the leadership of any man, woman or even a child in whom the voice of Jesus is clear and real. Therefore when we follow this natural person we are truly following the Spirit of the Lord. We should only follow a natural person as far as we can hear the voice of Christ Jesus in him. The plan is for every believer to grow into clearly hearing and following the Lord by the Holy Spirit.

John 10:27:  "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

What about those who due to immaturity and lack of practice do not know the spiritual voice of the Lord and therefore cannot follow? These are easily led astray by the voice of the man especially when it began as the voice of the Lord and became a mixture. This is why spiritual fathers or shepherds are needed to lead them to Jesus. Teaching-elders sometimes called fathers are always needed to lead the spiritually younger disciples into the maturity of hearing and obeying the voice of Jesus.

God will raise up elders or overseers in every household (meaning group, church, business or project) if it is a household of God. There will be gifted eldership (those in whom Christ dwells and speaks) to assist with the coordination of the work of God and see that all are moving in unity toward the mission of God for that specific entity.

Character Quality

The natural character quality requirements spelled out in 1 Timothy 3: 1-13 and Titus 1: 7-9 are the minimal requirements for character in leaders. There are even more and deeper qualities that may be present. These natural qualities or qualifications will be in place by the spiritual relationship with God producing the Christ-life within the leader. They are the outworking of the inner life of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

There is one Head of the church, the Lord Jesus. There is one source of life and leadership in the true church.

In the New Testament church, headship is never GIVEN to a human being. It is deposited in and flows through believers but it always remains the leadership authority of Christ Jesus.
The life of Christ is a well of living water in us flowing out to edify the Body. We are not that living water which is Christ. We are the conduit through which the water flows out to others. We are like a drinking fountain and He is the water.

We follow the man Christ Jesus directly by the Holy Spirit or through another person elder/leader. Therefore, we follow Christ Jesus and should respond only to His voice either directly or in a brother or sister.

1 Pet 5:5:  Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
 
Keep on pursuing love.
It never fails.

Ron McGatlin

http://archive.openheaven.com/" target=_blank eudora="autourl - archive.openheaven.com
mailto:basileia@earthlink.net - basileia@earthlink.net


Replies:

Posted By: Lyn McSweeney
Date Posted: 08/27/2008 at 4:08pm

THANK YOU RON!!!

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Love and Blessings!



Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Date Posted: 08/30/2008 at 8:44pm

Lyn, Thanks for your comment of thanks. I guess people don't have much to say about this one.

Ron




Posted By: Kathy Bippus
Date Posted: 08/30/2008 at 9:55pm

Well Ron, maybe because there was nothing in this which one could resist or refute  ( just my sense of humor)

So true though, it is the Spirit of of Christ Jesus we see and hear in the man. Man meaning , male/female, young, old and if there is a etc., etc. whatever is not however, toss it. I think it's just that plain and simple and you've shared it very plain and simply as well.

As a body or connected members, it is developing an intimate relationship where He is seen and heard, being in union with our Head. As Laurence has brought out quite a number of times, being a duplicate of Jesus.

 

 

 



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In His Love








Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Date Posted: 08/31/2008 at 6:27am

Yes, Kathy, that is what I thought. When there is a lack of response, either it is well said and they get it all or it is old news to most here on the forum. Sometimes the words are just reinforcement to us but may be fresh to some.

Ron




Posted By: alicia myers
Date Posted: 08/31/2008 at 10:54am

This is what is needed. We have leaders, but not enough spirit lead sold out leaders. I can't follow anything less. Most are not trusting of leadership in many ways, I would be one of those. God would really have to put me under someone that he knows is the 'real deal'.


God will raise up elders or overseers in every household (meaning group, church, business or project) if it is a household of God. There will be gifted eldership (those in whom Christ dwells and speaks) to assist with the coordination of the work of God and see that all are moving in unity toward the mission of God for that specific entity.


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More of Christ, Less of Me..



Posted By: Helen Overholt
Date Posted: 08/31/2008 at 2:09pm

Ron, there have been many times i have read what you have released and there was no need for me to add for you always release HIS Heart & Wisdom with such clarity and fullness of what HE is wanting you to say. You are most valued to us here and we respect and honor your integrity to the Kingdom of Light. Smiles......Oh by the way......Ty.......



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"HE Who Promised Is Faithful; For HE & HIS WORD Are One"










Posted By: Mandy Gay
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 2:45am

Ron,

What you have written resonates with how I see it.  You have put it very clearly. 

Love Mandy




Posted By: Kriston Couchey
Date Posted: 09/02/2008 at 9:11pm

Amen Ron!

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One of the chosen foolish and weak
http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/ - http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/
kcouchey@gmail.com



Posted By: Mark Reece
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 7:04am

Hi, Ron.

 

A well stated article! I have been pondering the situation we find ourselves in as the Lord untangles us from the old systems we have been subject to in the Body of Christ, especially as it pertains to the question of spiritual fathers. The rhetoric of spiritual fatherhood has floated around the church for years without denoting more than respect for the aged. But in recent years it has been seized upon as a vehicle for hiding the same old power-structure in new terminology. I have come to the conclusion that the Lord is moving us from symbol to the real in a multitude of areas, not the least of which is the issue of authority/fatherhood (and, yes, they are intimately related!) I’ll try to summarize what I’m thinking here, so I can get a comment.

 

First, with regard to fatherhood (and, by extension, motherhood), it is deeply related to being the image of God. Even in our fallen state, the vestiges of our original purpose are visible, and available for God to use. For example, as God separated out the linage of the Seed, the One who had been promised to champion the cause of Mankind against the serpent from the Garden, He cut a covenant with Abraham. He promised to make him a father; to work His image in him. And, as a sign of that covenant God required Abraham to be circumcised in the instrument of fulfilling that promise, and to pass that sign along to the following generations as a sign of the promise. This single aspect of being the image of God is carried forward and amplified in the Mosaic Law, to the extent that a man who couldn’t be a father was excluded from the life of Israel (Deu 23:1). Respect for parents (who, for a period of our lives, were the image of God to each of us), and for the aged were woven into that Law, as well (Ex 20:12, Lev 19:32).

 

Under the New Covenant we move from the symbolic to the actual substance. Thus, we move from the symbolic fatherhood carried by God’s image to the reality of God’s Fatherhood – first of Christ Jesus, and then through adoption, us. Circumcision is no longer outward and symbolic; it is inward and a spiritual reality accomplished by God’s Holy Spirit. This is why eunuchs could hear the promise in Isaiah of receiving a name better than having sons and daughters (Is 56:4-5). They might be excluded from carrying the symbolic, but they were not left out of the actual reality. To be an actual son or daughter of God is better than being a symbol representing the fact that it will be possible someday.

 

There is a reality which is beckoning us, and we must enter into it. Yet, there is a constant pull from men who want us to embrace the symbolic for their own purposes. For example, the word ‘father’ is used 409 times in the New Testament (NASB), about 100 times in the Gospels for genealogies, parables and to refer to specific men, maybe another 40 times through the rest of the NT to refer to men. The other 230 times it is used, it refers to our Heavenly Father! This should indicate to us the reality we are being birthed into – a deep parent/child relationship with the Creator of all – yet, men latch onto a single verse wherein Paul calls himself the father of the Corinthian church, and invent a whole system of doing church. Why can’t they see that is simply not possible for men to fulfill the role they are claiming to have? Sure, man can restore one who is caught unawares and stumbles, but what man can discipline another’s spirit when they are struggling with besetting sin? We can only see the outward behavior, not the roots. We will never be able to do more than restrain that outward behavior; we cannot love them into being a brand new person the way our Father can.

 

Are there fathers in the church? John thought so in I John. But he based that title on their deep knowledge of our Heavenly Father, not on their position of authority.

 

What then shall we say of spiritual authority in the family of God? First, that it should be gentle, and very humble We are at best older siblings leading younger siblings, so we should expect to persuade cooperation, not compel obedience. Even when years of experience gift us with the maturity to be respected as a father by one such as John the apostle, we cannot let ourselves forget that we are first and foremost a child before God presence, just like our brothers and sisters. (Difficult for us grumpy grey-hairs, eh? It would be so much easier if they all just took our word for it…)

 

We really have to turn away from the modern mythology of spiritual fatherhood which is currently in vogue in charismatic Christendom, especially the teaching that we will not enter the Kingdom of God unless we have a man as our ‘spiritual father’. It is just another lap around Mount Sinai for those trapped in slavery to men. Jesus came to be our Way, Truth, and Life – to lead us to our Father – and He is the same yesterday, today and forever. His voice still leads to the same destination, whether heard through our brothers and sisters, through Scripture, or deep in our own spirits. Knowing this, we should be able to sort out who to listen to, who to ‘be persuaded by’ (Heb 13:17 literal translation) because we are able to see the outcome of their lives (Heb 13:7). Let His voice be heard! Let Him lead the prodigals home; the time is short…

 

mark




Posted By: Kriston Couchey
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 10:09am

Mark Reece wrote:

Hi, Ron.

 

 ...men latch onto a single verse wherein Paul calls himself the father of the Corinthian church, and invent a whole system of doing church. Why can’t they see that is simply not possible for men to fulfill the role they are claiming to have? Sure, man can restore one who is caught unawares and stumbles, but what man can discipline another’s spirit when they are struggling with besetting sin? We can only see the outward behavior, not the roots. We will never be able to do more than restrain that outward behavior; we cannot love them into being a brand new person the way our Father can.

Are there fathers in the church? John thought so in I John. But he based that title on their deep knowledge of our Heavenly Father, not on their position of authority.

Wow, you said eloquently (sp?) What I have known in my spirit. I have seen the theology of fatherhood of apostles turn into another kinder gentler shepherding movement.  Control and power are control and power even if you put on the mask of parental concern.

Kris

 



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One of the chosen foolish and weak
http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/ - http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/
kcouchey@gmail.com



Posted By: Kriston Couchey
Date Posted: 09/04/2008 at 12:46pm

Mark,

Your response to this post has stirred me all afternoon. I think it is become wuite clear that Paul's claim of being a father to the Corintian church was not for the sake of establishing a doctrinal precedence for an authority structure that had it's emphasis on being aapotolic fathers. He was simply expressing his intimate relationship that only he had with them as being the one who first came and birthed the things of the Spirit in thier midst. He loved them as a father loves thier children, and they in turn must have had a special place in thier hearts for him as a child does for thier father.

This leads me to something that I think is important regarding the apostolic fathering issue. That is the issue of imprinting. In many cases in the natural, people or animals imprint a specific person or animal as thier parent. This can happen between species. For instance, a cat can raise goats and have the goats follow and imitate it as if they were cats.

In the church system of apostolic fathering I have seen and heard the complaint. "He won't submit to apostolic fathering!"  I have also had offered to me the opputunity to be "Fatherd apostolically".

You CANNOT be a father to someone unless you have been in the place of being PART or PRESENT at the birth process. Many want to father children they have not had a hand in bringing into the kingdom. This reality limits the use of the term, apostolic father to works birthed by an individual. Most of the apostolic fathering happening is someone coming in and assuming a fathering role they have no relational right to assume.

This whole issue of authority and leadership based upon submission to apostolic faterhing is really based upon ONE scripture that has turned into a doctrine out of control. Why, the need for men to control.

One more thing. A young man told me He begged God for a mentor, God finally told him, "Who do you want to mentor you? ME or someone else?" This is the Lord's heart for people, to find a relationship with thier real Father because someone with His heart of a father led them to Him. 

Kris  



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One of the chosen foolish and weak
http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/ - http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/
kcouchey@gmail.com



Posted By: Mark Reece
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 6:55am

Good thoughts, Kris.

The extreme fatherlessness of society throughout the world has created a situation where on the one hand, there is a deep longing for mentoring, fathering, and loving authority, and on the other, there is a general lack of understanding of those very issues because we have no examples or foundation in them. In this environment, counterfeits abound. There is a need for the careful re-statement of the true nature of authority, such as that Ron has given here, as well as revelation directly from our Father to our spirits. There is a crying need for individuals to walk out all of the above in plain sight, too!

mark




Posted By: Charlotte Carro
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 8:39am

Love it. It all goes back to the word of God doesn't it? Thank you Ron for taking the time.

 

Much Love In Christ

Charlotte



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Charlotte Carroll



Posted By: Kriston Couchey
Date Posted: 09/05/2008 at 10:14am

Good observations Mark,

I am starting to embrace something I call replacement theology. Not the replacement theology that replaces Israel with the Gentile church.

What I mean by that, is the wisdom and works of men REPLACE the wisdom and works of God. The enemy doesn't generally come against the church with total frontal asault unless all others options fail. He infiltrates and plants seed of falsehood that replace realities with counterfeits.

That is why we see what is in my estimation a  false apostolic movement, false leadership structures, and false doctrines that take kingdom principles and skew or distort them. This is effective, because the REAL is often rejected because it is linked to the false. People become innoculated from the truth by getting a small portion of it with a lot of error injected.

The Lord is going to consolidate the truth in these beggining days (notice I didn't say "last days", thats another replacement of truth, the error of "last days"). As all truths are established and consolidated under His headship, the error that has replaced truth will be exposed and removed. It WILL be ugly. For the whole world is in the grips of the error of replacement theology. That is what the ANTICHRIST means, Intead of or in place of the anointing.

In the church, the first thing to get exposed and removed is the false leadership, and that is why you see Ron and others addressing this issue, for the Lord is addressing it at this time.

Kris

 



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One of the chosen foolish and weak
http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/ - http://my.opera.com/Boanerges/blog/
kcouchey@gmail.com



Posted By: Ron McGatlin
Date Posted: 09/07/2008 at 6:46pm

Amen Kriston,

Now lets have some re replacement reality instead of replacement theology. Let's replace the false headship of men with the headship of Christ Jesus by the Holy Spirit.

Ron




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