Posted: 09/24/2008 at 8:57pm | IP Logged

The whole of this is really good Ron,

Just bringing out a couple things:

"Where is the starting point?

·         Getting the vision from God,

·         Getting excited about the vision,

·         Praying the vision back to God,

·         Preaching the vision everywhere you preach,

·         Sharing the vision with individuals,

·         Write the vision and publish it,

·         Move with the vision when the opportunity presents itself,

·         Stay on track with no other diversionary visions.

Pray – Hear – Obey Ask God for a vision and pray for the vision He gives you. Listen and move in obedience in the next step He reveals to you. Wait upon Him and watch for the next step to open before you."

a friend and I were just talking about this today, which you have shared here...a huge amen

Posted: 09/25/2008 at 3:03am | IP Logged

Pray – Hear – Obey Ask God for a vision and pray for the vision He gives you. Listen and move in obedience in the next step He reveals to you. Wait upon Him and watch for the next step to open before you.

Thankyou for this Ron.  It can be very frustrating and demoralising when no-one else you talk to is seeing what you see, and you are treated with suspicion (as a heretic, or even a backslider for opting out of the current system).

Love Mandy

Posted: 09/25/2008 at 8:30pm | IP Logged

Ron McGatlin wrote: Jesus in us by the Holy Spirit will lead us into connections without planning or trying to do something. Probably most of the time we really don't know what we are doing or why. Sensing the leadership of the Spirit so greatly simplifies life. Sensing that urge to call someone or go somewhere or avoid something or how to vote or whatever is such a blessing.

Yes and as shared in Lyn's thread of REPENT AND ENTER HIS REST  it really is that simple. I believe these two( threads) really conincide Ron.

Posted: 09/26/2008 at 8:11am | IP Logged

 Brother Ron...

Are you in a mode of rest , having some joy in the peace you have there with wife, family, and brethrn in which things seems good to you?

It seems to me that in this pattern is something that ( how can one put ti into words) so simple that as it manifested itself as the Kingdom of God it would be so slow and natural that it would appear to be doing nothing, in its being Who it is in Character.

In appearance when we look at, lets say a Tomato plant it appears to be static. It is just setting there , but as the days passes it changes and if one were to capture the growth on film and speed the film up it would be turn and twist , adjust , in its seeking light, extending itself in structure, via it God given Character to put on fruit = the end results of it Being , in it doing what do.

One can do all kinds of things to it but change it character, and it will still relate to where it is , when it is and how it will grow.... depends of it relateing to its on self via it own dynamic to find Water and Neutrients, but all this is proportionl to the amont of Light it recieves and or that which powers the process of it structure , via it's Character , to cause it to function as a Tomato Plant, in producing the Thing it make in Character = Fruit.

Again if we observe the dynamic , we see the plant tends to itself in doing what seems to be it's own way to alter it sturcture as it functions to reach it goal of producing fruit.

In this manifestation of it's freedom via its reaching up and out... relating to itself, in principle it seems to us , as it seems to itself ... it is following a righteous path. Then... as it reaches the end of it path... it's whole objective is fuiflled in making its fruit. 

Could it be that in this pattern we are to be free to seem? In that the concept being.... there is no order at all.... but just to live in the Character of Christ, Where we are, When we are , in that How we move to product the plant, at the expence of the fruit is lost?

Here the Word , and if taken from it context to form a religious point of view (if one thinks on the matter) is a concept that will never lead men to precieve  What the Kindom of God is and in truth it may be the Key false idea, that if not usnderstood and  or used in our relating to one another in a righteous manner ... we cannot "percieve" Christ amnog us , let along a Kingdom!

Galatians 2:9 (KJV) 
    And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

The ideal being that if seemed , then no law was ever fixed to builds anything on earth physicaly to cause and or to give cause to the perception of the Kingdom , manifested as a formal ordered event... given to project it idenity  in a structure = a thing to be seen without as opposed to be visioned "within"!

All I just said was ....you may think you can build a Tomato Plant and alter it's genetic make up or create  what you think is a perfict enviroment but what?

You have Sructure and Function , but no Character  and that comes out in the power of the fruit, in that it may look good, but have no good in it.

Was it Father God Way to build a plant that produceses branches only? 

John 15:4-5 (KJV) 
    Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 15:8 (KJV) 
    Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

A branch?

Jeremiah 33:15 (KJV) 
    In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

Could it be that men has built the branch and in doing so elimated their ability via the fruit it would have produced left men void of wisdom of how to excute judgement and righteouness in the Land of America.

These unrighteous branches being produced , manifested as churches given to law, unable to do the followong  because to seem  as opposed to know surly could not be God's doing vai His Being God.

Acts 15:25 (KJV) 
    It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

And...

Acts 15:28 (KJV) 
    For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Could it be the " the one accord thing" be the results of  the frutis and what seemed good was that which Our Father in Heaven had approaved via the presence of His Son, in that doing what we do "just" ... in our being servants  those things necssary to help one another " make it " = a live in Peace, via the Joy of Our King , in our Love for one another = that Fruit Thing

Seem to be the pattern of something . in that  in our gathering  we could perceived the grace that was given unto you Bro Ron, me and or ANY OTHER MAN OR WOMEN WHO IS SMART?

I think not , but precieved to have found his approach to serve Our Lord in all nine of the attributes of God Spirit, you know the ONE Who empowers us in our seeming...setting the Law yes , but full-filling it in the Grace of God , manifested as the Mercy of God.

Bro. Larry

Posted: 10/02/2008 at 8:00am | IP Logged

Brittni,

I cannot speak for Ron, but I can testify a couple things.

I have a big garden of vegetables every year. This year i heard the Spirit tell me to stop using manmade fertilizers. I did just that and everything just grew wonderfully. I will never use Man made fertilizers again. I went organic. As a matter of fact, the hybrid (man manipulated) tomatoes that were bred to ripen quickly i planted quickly got rot, gave a small amount of strange colored fruit and died weeks ago while the other plants in my minnesota garden are still green in october.  

In my experience it is the same as the church. Man made additives and manipulations try to add something to what God is already doing. People are not sastified to simply move and grow by the sole direction and unction of the spirit, but add Law, rules, structure, and heirarchal systems that remove the natural growth and function of the planting of the Lord. 

We give titles and positions based upon our man made ideas, when in the garden of the Lord there are functions, fruit and gifts that grow and mature in much wiser and benificial ways when given room to grow and mature and function freely.

The best policy i've seen is this, they got the fruit and the gifts, then make room for them, regardless of what the man made structure says they need to DO to be viable. My volunteer tomatoes are much more healthy then the ones I planted in neat rows. they are bit behind, but much more pleasing to the eye and healthy.

I am not speaking for Ron, but witnessing that what I see happening outside the church in my area with those I fellowship WITH not OVER, is much more healthy and vibrant with much more potential then the man regulated and structured systems.

Kris

Posted: 10/02/2008 at 12:45pm | IP Logged

Brittni,

don't let terms be confusing. this KRC is just a term used for something that doesn't even need a name , but is inspired of the Spirit to take place.

Really what is happening, is God is moving things forward by the Spirit that is not sourced in man's plans. It is interesting Ron wrote about these monthly meetings, as in our region of minnesota friends of mine and I moved by the Spirit planned a regional worship meeting about a month ago. Call it a KRC or whatever, the terms don't matter, God is doing something outside the structure of existing networks with many whose relatonships are based on the Spirit's connection and not a system of religion. We have talked of monthly or bi monthly meetings with the scattered people who meet in homes around the central minnesota region.

I am connected with many in my state on a basis of Friendship and mutual respect, not on the basis of my gifts or call. I certianly function in my gifts, and they in thiers, but this is not our basis for relationship, it is a connection made by the Spirit for His purposes.  

You will not at this time see any of this happening freely in the exisitng structures as there is always an element of men's control when titles and postion are the basis for relating.

In the system, "pastors" are the governers, apostles are the "kings" and prophets are the enforcers and keep people submitted to the doctrine teachers promote for the "leadership". This is really quite a clear picture of the way it truly is. but this is changing.

Truly, Change is coming, change we can believe in. no longer "more of the same... "

Kris

Posted: 10/02/2008 at 1:02pm | IP Logged

HALLELUJAH! "DIVINE APPOINTMENTS", "DIVINE CONNECTIONS" MANIFESTING! GLORY TO GOD!!!

Posted: 10/02/2008 at 4:48pm | IP Logged

I think the answer to Brittni's Question of what Organic Apostolic networks and KRCs are is given in the original post by ron... I think if you read it thoughtfully Brittni you will clearly see what the Spirit is saying through Ron.

The question of whether this is just a vision or really happening? I can't speak for any one elses situation, but God has been connecting and building something in my area that is on the verge of explosion... We are about to have that "KRC" Ron is talking about after years of low level movement and once in a while outbreaks. much of the last few years has been a learning curve of really culling out of people (by the Lord) who do not have the Spirit's interest, but thier own personal agendas in mind.

Talk about painful... But I see even a few places in the system that are close to seeing the same vision, and it is exciting. I have learned to not make alliances with people carrying moldy bread and worn out clothes. Eveen if they have an anointing. Don't mistake gifts with approval of God.

There is really a "knowing" that comes when it comes to those who truly are sent of the Spirit to be joined, and those who have not truly heard the Spirit and have an agenda. You just know in the Spirit what is of Him and what is not. Brittni, if you are serious about losing your life, your ways and your ideas of what "Church" is, then seriously ask the Lord to connect you with those who are walking in obedience and communion with Him.

These who are, are mostly out of the churches and have a confidence and maturity that sets them apart from others. And some also have reputations of being rebellious, unsubmitted, and mavericks.

Well, I must take my daughter to gun safety class, bye for now....

Kris

Posted: 10/03/2008 at 6:50am | IP Logged

Joan asked, “What would Jesus do?”

As much as it might offend some to hear it, He would go to an organized church… because that is where the lost sheep of Israel gathered to search for God.

Luk 4:16  And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read.

But, He would also gather with those who sought God in the streets and byways of the cities; those full of expectation that God was doing something new.

Mat 4:25  Large crowds followed Him from Galilee and the Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordan.

And He would even spend time with people who had no clue about any of these things.

Mat 9:10  Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples.

Changing the forms and venues of our meetings will not change us. If our broken hearts are looking for a father figure, we will find a strong pyramidal authority structure to give us comfort and identity in any size group we choose to attend. If we are still looking for group membership to define out identity, it doesn’t matter whether we join a denomination, or a house group, or a KRC. The effect in our hearts will be the same. The same can be stated for each of the empty places in our hearts we try and fill ourselves.

The change must take place inside of each of us. The freeborn sons of God are free to do all of these things and more, without losing their freedom and identity. And, we can participate in these things without losing the love and relationship which knits the organism known as the Church together as a glorious living being.

The tragedy of the Church age is not that we have found out how to meet in buildings which we own, or that we are organized in our meetings, or that we gather by the hundreds, it is that we have forgotten parts of the Gospel. We forgot that only the sacrifice of Jesus saves, and that by faith. But God was faithful to remind us… We forgot that the Holy Spirit had been poured out on us to accomplish a supernatural life in us in the midst of this broken world. But God was faithful to remind us…  We have forgotten that the effect of the fully proclaimed Gospel is to draw us home to our Father, and mature us into the stature of Jesus Christ. But God is faithfully reminding us!

The transformation in us by the full Gospel will transform all of these external things, but it can never work in reverse.

Mat 18:3  and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Posted: 10/03/2008 at 7:59am | IP Logged

What would Jesus do? Or what is Jesus doing?

It's not debate about structures, it is about doing what He is doing NOW. And what He is doing now IN US is what we should be doing. I am simply persoanlly testifying what He is doing NOW in my region outside of the structure. that does not negate what He is doing anywhere else.

Frustration comes from doing what He is NOT doing. Jesus said, "I only do what I see my Father doing." There is rest in that kind of obedience and not struggle. "Apart from me you can do NOTHING."

There is no debate going on, only speaking and doing what the Father is doing. God is doing what He want to do both in and out of the structure, but like the religion of the pharisees that dominated the day, the existing structures will eventually have to repent and change or fade away. And as i and others can testify, the exisiting structures will take you to a high cliff to throw you off when you speak the truth in the synogogue like Jesus did. The real issue is this, Are you doing what Father is doing, or trying to please him by doing what you can to make yourself acceptable to Him?

Posted: 10/03/2008 at 11:59am | IP Logged

Ha,.. You have no Idea Kriston!

God has had me hidden for awhile now.  I'm not released to share.. YET. I have experienced first hand what loosing my life for his sake is. And its not fun nor pretty. Its not all Heroic like that a lot of people make it out to be. I personally haven't been in 'church' for a long time..

 And even when I was in 'church' I was young and never got really 'into' it as a lot of people do.. to be honest I don't quite Get 'the church system'. as I'm part of that generation that’s grown up 'out' of 'the church system'.

 All I have learnt has come strait from God by Personal Revelation or from personal study. Or from God showing where and whom to glean from… (or having God make me walk out certain things to give me first hand knowledge on stuff). So I guess I just don't  get 'the church system'.. I also don't get these little names People label things with.. Like 'Apostilistic Network' or ''Kingdom Revival Centers' as it all just sounds Hokey to me. In my mind its like.. Stop labeling it and get on with it.. Get serious about God. Just follow his leading and learn from him. And stop trying to make something yourself and just let God Make whatever he wishes to make.. Stop trying to name, label and put a title on it.. Just let it be what it is and let God do the work. With that said..

 its truly awesome what God is doing. And working in my life and with the 'true church' right now...

I can see him moving greatly at this time. (even if at times it seems like he is doing it super slowly.. You look back and see he is really doing it quickly.. One of those things that God can do and does that confounds the wise.. Know what I mean?) He is also been Divinely connecting me and my family with other families and people. And its really truly amazing how he is bringing these people into our lives.... We haven't had to go out and search for people. God has brought them. Even though we don't 'Go out' much or try to meet other people.

 And God has also really taken us away from having any agenda. We don't have anywhere to go. Or anything we have to go do.(we have gotten to the point where we have given him everything and there's nothing we can do about it now! We're under his thumb and there's no going back or taking back.. There's no turning aside and saying 'ok I'm done lets move on' or 'ok that was fun give me my life back'..we are now Stuck in his will and hes not letting us go. Wither we like it or not..)  We don't go and have Potlucks or Fun get together or anything. Gods got us hidden and in waiting for what he is about to release.  And when he does release it. Its going to be BIG. It may look small to many people. But its going to really big for those who he has hidden for such a time as this. I can see God setting up places for people to meet preparing the people to meet.. But for me and my family the time has not yet come. I don't know how close or how far it is. But it feels like the break through is imminent..

Anyways. Just a blurp of where God has us.

God Bless!
Brittni

Posted: 10/03/2008 at 12:42pm | IP Logged

Brittni,

That sounds organic to me.... Be prepared to be thrust into a bigger vision and conection. Terms are used to define things. They called the early church "the way" and the term "Christian" meant follower of christ.

Terms are needed to describe things some times, but the problem comes when term or titles start to define divisions or sectarian parties.  You were asking the question of what these things are and are they really happening, Ron described what they are, and I am telling you this is happening.

I believe Ron is simply describing a bigger vision with terms that those on this forum and on his email list can understand. God is constructing something that is of His own making, and these small family connections that cannot be defined as "church" will find flow of spirit and life in a greater connection of all the parts. The life and power that will flow as these combine will be unstoppable, and result in the greatest work of God in history, The establishing of His kingdom in and through mankind, the Day of the LORD! 

Kris

Posted: 10/07/2008 at 8:18am | IP Logged

Blessings Brittni.......... and a hug to old dad ( the one on earth)...

Do you use a tiller?

My oh me!........ Just a "blurp!  It this is a blurp them keep on sharing , because as you write the big bloom /glory will come, and that is the creational aspect of  being free , menaing that we grow and learn about growing in our knowledge of Our Lord , Who is Christ as his Garden comes up!

I will go with what Kriston has shared below!

I believe Ron is simply describing a bigger vision with terms that those on this forum and on his email list can understand. God is constructing something that is of His own making, and these small family connections that cannot be defined as "church" will find flow of spirit and life in a greater connection of all the parts. The life and power that will flow as these combine will be unstoppable, and result in the greatest work of God in history, The establishing of His kingdom in and through mankind, the Day of the LORD! 

Whew! and it can happen right out there in a Garden, in that if you and dad and Father ( big Dad) are working on understanding something will produce fruit.

On a serious note...  Mark Reece has a point about the concept of where this might happen, but just lke the second garden you and dad put in , these folks can set right there and wait on planting  "anew" vai repentance of the trutful observance that what they did last year, did not produce anything this year but the stalk. Stalks look good, but I lkke to eat them tomaters ( Tomatos) .

You kid, and  Dad are as close to the Kingdom out there as these weed filled churches are  far from it... in that what  you are doing is a matter of relating  to life to bring life, as the expence of never being "Known" via some big ministery.

Stay ready , Our Lord will bring some one to you to be in you being a matter of peace for them!

Kinda scary it is city fed folks ( formely churched)  for folks to take time to plant a seed, you know that little bitty thing that appears to be dead as a rock and do this stupid thing of waiting on it to come up!  Let alone digging around out there in all that dirt to make a place for the seed ot have a life!  Thas not to mention the ideal that after it come up ...you have to "go out" to attend to its needs. Who wants to do all that?

Let me get this straight you and Dad and Christ are out there doing this thing that requires faith? Thinking on what joy... all will have... when you go out one day and these these little plant has put on fruit!

 The irony being ( in their being birthed by you)  that with that fruit  you can share is another seed that when planted will go righ back into creating another living thing in its character!

My plants did well this year (seven tomato plants  fed four of us all summer long and here is what ( and you may have done this) to help you production = rotate you plants.

 Formal churchs also need to learn this... as each time you plant in a new spot  you offer the next generatinon of plants new soil and in changing the landscape the bug eggs and or what  ever will be removed from having their approach "set" for them ( demons)  when things come up. If new bugs do come , hand pick then off by going over what  plants you have and then watch for problems. In principle plant what  you need as opposed to what you want, and quality assured . Do it  the other way around like church raised folks does and , yes you can get a lot of stuff, but have no nutritional  value where it be in the physical or the spirtual realm.

Doing what seems good in the Spirit , in that the joy of something is going to happen "out there"  in the old bug filled garden is "what" Our Lord is doing.

 If we can manifest His patiences in having a good garden, then your furit will assure whoever you realte to will attend to you understanding int he Law, but more so joy in being able to set down in your Gace!

One last thing , some of us are good a preparing the garden and others at harvesting the fruit, so done make a bunch of rules up as to who will do what just to make a point that the whole thing is important! Menaing if you like to pick bettern than plant that ok!

Loved the conversation here as it has fruit  in it!

Bro Larry

Posted: 10/12/2008 at 1:55pm | IP Logged

Denise wrote:

Quote: It was recently pointed out to me that many people and also many organizations have salvation at their focal point and not full entry IN and TO the kingdom of God. This will never move into the deep solid unshakable relating of the kingdom. Elementary doctrines and depicted in Hebrews vs coming into the City of God. If all that's come to as Jesus and salvation, it will never go beyond and into the fullness. No matter how lovely and complicated, or how simple and bare, no matter how sparse or how populated modern or old fashioned quiet or loud...it's all man made. It's good to be saved. It's good to be cleansed and baptised and raised to new life...however this life's made to be in the kingdom of God. Then the real connecting can truly take place. All men can build are play castles or small inaccurate models of the real thing.

Amen, all man can build is models. We can paint a picture of a leaf but cannot make a leaf.

Ron

Posted: 10/17/2008 at 10:40am | IP Logged

What if…

What if we looked at OH as a structure?

What if Ron is the lead elder, head pastor, or whatever title goes with that role, and he exercises oversight in what is allowed in the community and what is not? What if he gives messages on a semi-regular basis to steer the vision of the community? What if he has invited a number of people to leave, some for heretical views, some for views counter to the direction OH is moving? Would that be bad?

What if Ron has a team of trusted laborers who share the load of watching over the community? What if the moderators, each with their own individual areas of expertise and responsibility perform much as any volunteer staff to make sure things flow smoothly? Would that be wrong?

What if there were a second tier of seasoned men and women who give such time as they can, and participate, though not in any official capacity? What if their interactions and relationships form the day-to-day flow of life in the community? Is that unusual?

And, what if there is actually a much larger group of individuals scattered across much of the globe, who never speak out or participate in the discussions, but who draw discipleship and encouragement from listening in? Are they losing or gaining?

If I enjoy and value this expression of community so much (and I do…), why have I seemed to get an allergic reaction when I find the same structure functioning in a local community? Why endorse that structure here and not there?

What if we are not looking so much for a new vision of how things ought to be, as searching for the way to live out what is when we are in the same room with each other and not safely isolated by miles of internet space?

What if OH is really a set of training-wheels for doing this thing right?

Posted: 10/17/2008 at 3:50pm | IP Logged

Hi Mark,

You wrote: "If I enjoy and value this expression of community so much (and I do…), why have I seemed to get an allergic reaction when I find the same structure functioning in a local community? Why endorse that structure here and not there?"

The structure here at OH is organic, functional, relational. You may find the same thing in a local community--where people are bound together functionally and relationally. However, usually, there is an added layer of structure there--the church organization. An organization has a life of its own and needs that require to be served. Often the servicing of these needs is paid for with the very environment that people need to mature in Christ: liberty in the Spirit and fellowship with others who "belong" to a different organization. I think the "allergic reaction" is directed at this mixture--this added layer of structure.

Yeah, I do think "OH is really a set of training-wheels for doing this thing right."

Posted: 10/17/2008 at 5:53pm | IP Logged

Hello Ron and others,

While I have been a member of this group for sometime  now I have not come here very frequently. But now things are different in this season. Ron this writing you put out....I have to tell you...it puts an explanation on visions I have had back in 2002. I have held onto these things and will continue to do so.

Your sharing brought things up a notch as in magnification and yet I know there are even greater details we are all waiting to be released to us.

Even though I also consider myself one of the "hidden ones"...I don't feel I am personally ready and my husband hasn't been yet shown anything about it at all. So I myself am in the prayer mode....feeling I have been called to deeper prayer at this time.

I tried to attend a new bible study...but found this was not to be...now I understand...now I understand....

God help us to be ready! Prepare our hearts Lord! Search them and see if there be any wicked way within and cleanse us Lord....Renew the right Spirit within us Father...and Lord? Forgive us of our trespasses and heal our land! In Jesus name amen!

GOD BLESS!!!!