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Rabbi Semachiah
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Posted: 07/15/2010 at 2:30am
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Shalom,
Besides our understanding that there is only one YHVH as stated in the Sh'ma...
Deut 6:4
"Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad [Hear, Isra'el!
ADONAI our God, ADONAI is one];
...and the fact that Y'SHUA lived and died as a man in order to fulfill the Tanach and thereby became the one, the only and the final sacrifice for the sins of mankind until He returns as The MESSIAH is there anything else "required" that one is to believe or do in order to be saved?
In other words besides knowing and loving the LORD thy YHVH (Sh'ma point) and loving thy brother as thyself (Y'SHUA point) is there anything else that are not contained in these two above mentioned conditions that "must" be?
Are all other doctrines "good" but ultimately not "required"?
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Ron McGatlin
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Posted: 07/15/2010 at 5:58am
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The answer to your question depends on your definition of "be saved". Whether a biblical definition is used in light of the true gospel of the kingdom or a popular church definition is used changes the answer substantially. Why not begin by defining "be saved"?
Ron
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Rabbi Semachiah
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Posted: 07/16/2010 at 4:10am
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Shalom,
"Saved": When The MESSIAH is seen the "saved" person is one of those to be taken as a Son of YHVH, as an Heir and Joint Heir with Y'SHUA.
Alert: I am not looking to trick anyone or whatever but just to discuss the topic and understand as many different views as possible.
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Ron McGatlin
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Posted: 07/17/2010 at 1:08pm
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Hello Rabbi,
No suspicion of trickery or anything. Many people have different definitions of the term "be saved". Some believe this only refers to going to heaven when we die. Those with this view usually are convinced there is absolutely nothing further involved or required by God to "be saved" (make it to heaven).
A more biblical view of salvation or (being saved) involves healing and deliverance in this life and eventually the world being saved (healed, delivered, redeemed, restored and made new or renewed). Of course all of this is accomplished by Christ Jesus in the Holy Spirit by the grace of God (influence of God in the heart and the outworking of that into the life) thus establishing the kingdom of God within the believer and flowing out into the world. Though Christ is the full provision and empowerment of all redemption mankind has an ongoing part in the fullness of salvation. Human beings must align their will with the will of God. We must be willing to lay our lives before God and allow Him to fully complete His work in us.
Practical things are involved in this process such as renewing our minds, reckoning our selves dead, abiding in the vine, walking in the Spirit, turning from all other gods, coming out from among them, pray and believe. These are a few things that come into mind, there are more. These things are required for salvation in the full sense of redemption of our lives now and all that was lost that Jesus came to save. John 3:16-17: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."
Ron
Edited by Ron McGatlin on 07/17/2010 at 1:47pm
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Rabbi Semachiah
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Posted: 07/19/2010 at 2:20am
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Shalom Bro. Ron,
Essentially the difference you describe is Scriptural and can be seen without trauma from either view point.
If one make "salvation" to be all inclusive it must deny or explain away...
Rom
13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now [it is]
high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than
when we believed. KJV
Either way it is eventually going to take one to the same location...so "Machs Nix!" (Makes no difference) as we used to say in Germany!
Another difference that will generally need to be addressed through this all inclusive view, which again will make little difference to most is the difference between The CHRIST and The MESSIAH. For those who do hold to a difference between the two The CHRIST is the Y'SHUA who has already come and died. This One fulfilled the first four feast of YHVH. The MESSIAH is the Y'SHUA to come who is The DELIVERER of all of YHVH's Children and has promised but has yet to fulfill the final three feast. The first of these feast being Rosh Hashanah which is the time in which we find ourselves today. This is the time in which we come to grips with our need to be "right" before YHVH and with others. This is the time where if we have ought with another we are to leave our offering at the alter and go makes things right first. This is the time of self examination.
Next to come is Yom Kippur or The Day of Atonement. This is the Day of Judgment of which all of us must face YHVH. Those of us who have accepted Y'SHUA as The CHRIST will now have Him as the blood sacrifice covering their sins so that all that YHVH sees of us is HIM (the CHRIST).
Lastly The Feast of Tabernacles; our "Wedding Feast" (as the New Testament describes it) or time of celebration is to come.
Those who tend to separate salvation into two time periods are okay as long as the this time we are in is considered the time of being "Born Again" in or through technically The CHRIST. This is the time of "The Believers". As described in Rom 13:11 above, The Believers are those waiting for the coming MESSIAH who comes with salvation...
Hbr
9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of
many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time
without sin unto salvation. KJV
Even though there is a minor difference in the view the final destination is the same. Both can receive the total healing package as well as all of the other benefits such as deliverance and like freedoms within The CHRIST but they must be led to understand what is available to them.
The only "real" difference between a "Believer" and one who claims to be "saved" now is in the understanding of the difference between The CHRIST and The MESSIAH. (or at least that should be the case).
According to The Scriptures salvation is not yet ours but is essentially ours because YHVH has promised it to us "IF". The "IF" is the problem. "IF" we continue in HIS commandments. "IF" we continue to accept HIS offering of Y'SHUA as "THE" one, Only and Final acceptable sacrifice for the sins of mankind..."THEN" we will be saved when The MESSIAH comes.
I can understand and appreciate either position but to the first point the question is besides acknowledging that there is only one YHVH (and yes you may describe HIM as a TRINITY or not) and accepting Y'SHUA as the One; Only and Final Sacrificial Lamb of YHVH is there anything else "Required" by YHVH in order to eventually find yourself "delivered" and standing before YHVH free from the wages of sin?
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Ron McGatlin
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Posted: 07/19/2010 at 9:39am
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Lots of words and background teaching here but I don't care much for all the views Jewish or otherwise. Hearing God by the Spirit brings real truth. The gospel of the kingdom that Jesus preached is being revealed and all people need to partake of and become a part of the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus was talking about this life and that is what I am talking about. We all need the kingdom of God / New Jerusalem life now. Jesus came to save the planet and all that is on it. This is redemption or taking back the kingdoms of this world that Adam lost to the enemy.
Christians and Jews along with everyone else in the world need to receive the gospel of the kingdom that Jesus came to proclaim and now is proclaiming through His chosen people to the world. Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness is for everyone.
Ron
Edited by Ron McGatlin on 07/19/2010 at 9:39am
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Rabbi Semachiah
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Posted: 07/20/2010 at 1:34am
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Shalom Bro. Ron,
We are in agreement it seems but again I ask...
The question is besides acknowledging that there is only one YHVH (and
yes you may describe HIM as a TRINITY or not) and accepting Y'SHUA as
the One; Only and Final Sacrificial Lamb of YHVH is there anything else "Required" by YHVH in order to
eventually find yourself "delivered" and standing before YHVH free from
the wages of sin?
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Topic: Required of YHVH?
