Posted: 08/12/2010 at 2:02am | IP Logged

Hi Timmy,

I see what you're saying (and I hope I'm not going to offend you) but I haven't found anything in what Jesus taught that suggests that the more people that pray the better the chances of success.  (Although I can see that there may be examples where it could possibly be effective if many people were being called to repentance by God over a certain issue.)

But, take healing a specific person, for example as you have mentioned... their healing is dependant upon coming into tune with what already is in the spiritual realm, not upon the prayer efforts of as many people as possible.  It is a result of trust in what already exists in the eternal, not related to how many pray at a certain time... which smacks of contrived "works" rather than simple child-like trust.  The prayer of one "trusting" person is all it takes.  Consider the words of James:

¹⁵And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. ¹⁶Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." (James 5:15-16 NIV)

... note it says that the prayer of a righteous man (singular) is powerful and effective. 

Successful prayer comes from a place of rest and trust in Christ... the number of people praying and the time of the prayer has no bearing upon this and the suggestion of it can even lead people into looking in the wrong direction.

There have been many well meaning but misleading theories in the past based on principles such as:

"if we do this then God will do that". 

Such thoughts are not based on trust in who He is and the knowledge of His love but on techniques aimed at trying to get Him to do something He is probably unwilling to do and the need to convince Him somehow (using the right technique or formula) to do what we want.

In this season there is a move away from the false teachings and techniques of the past which kept us at a distance from our Lord, toward the new freedom that comes from simple trust and closer and closer relating with Christ.

With love,

Mandy

Posted: 08/12/2010 at 11:07am | IP Logged

Hi Timmy,

I'm wanting to tread carefully here so as not to squelch your enthusiasm, but I am eager to press the issue of the quality of our prayer rather than focussing on quantity and timing.

If we are completely honest about it not a lot of the prayer that takes place in church is very effective is it?  Its sad to say but the graveyards are full of people who held vehemently to beliefs about healing prayer that were ineffective. If your thinking about so many praying in unison is effective then we would have got this whole mess all sewn up decades ago.  Your idea is not a new one :) 

The issue at hand is not the quantity of prayer, but the quality... Jesus taught much about that. 

We are in a season where the quality of our relationship with the Lord is of the essence.  It is through our coming to really "know" Him in the depths of our being that we see our prayers reliably and consistently answered... when we truly abide in Him and become one with Him. 

In the verse of scripture you mentioned Jesus was talking specifically about the quality of our relationship with Him.  I've quoted the Amplified version of it here:

 ²⁰For wherever two or three are gathered (drawn together as My followers) in (into) My name, there I AM in the midst of them. (Matt 18:20 Amp)

Following Him and being drawn into His name means being drawn into His person and character and becoming as He is.  This is the result of abiding in and having our life in and through Him.  I suggest that this needs to be the focus of our efforts, if we are talking about exerting and directing our efforts.

I say this because if the focus is wrong we can actually be working against the will of God and totally miss the plot, as well as leading others astray with us.

So I will leave you with the suggestion to focus your efforts on the quality of your relationship with the Lord (keep praying to know Him deeper and deeper)... and let the results speak for themselves.

With love,

Mandy

Posted: 08/12/2010 at 5:54pm | IP Logged

Pray for me Timmy and Mandy!! I need some very much for healing right now!!

(Those of us suffering need for healing...usually wish the debate over the effective ways to pray would happen after we all fall on our faces to pray for the sick to feel better and be healed... as you can imagine. ;)

Share with me if the Lord show you anything for me...

love, michele

Posted: 08/13/2010 at 2:03am | IP Logged

Hi again Timmy,

Further to your wondering about our prayer effectiveness and "knowing" the Lord... as we become one with Him we come to the place of being moved only by Him and our prayers become of Him and no longer of our flesh... this is what makes them reliably effective. 

Its praying in the flesh that makes it ineffective.  I would estimate that most prayer is of the flesh at the moment.  The results speak for this.

Posted: 08/13/2010 at 8:35am | IP Logged

Michele, you do not need anyone to "fall on their faces" to pray for you.  You need to rest in the beautiful love of the Lord and receive it.

Learn to rest and remain resting in His love. 

In His love, Mandy

Posted: 08/13/2010 at 9:45am | IP Logged

Faith mixed with compassion Mandy...blessings to you. We need both. Without

spending time in prayer...we do not hear from Him...and know the way through. Without

compassion...we do not pray I think. If I am misunderstanding...please forgive me. ((love)).

and...

Agreeing  Gayle with your prayer of faith for me!!

Talit ha cum! Little covenant girl...arise!!

michele

Posted: 08/14/2010 at 1:44am | IP Logged

Michele,

His love is all you need.  "Knowing" His love is the way through.  It's His love that heals.  Coming to really know His love in the depths of our being is what is needed.  Seek this!

This is growing up and moving away from dependance upon others to pray for us. 

Love, Mandy

P.S. The anointing comes from being one with Him.  It is available to us all.  You do not need to seek it from others.

Posted: 08/16/2010 at 2:50am | IP Logged

Timmy,

In part, yes... as new and young believers we often need the love of maturer believers to demonstrate the love of Christ to us, especially if we have suffered from the lack of love in our lives and are unable to perceive it rightly from the Lord.  In my own experience though, when this has been most effective has been when it was set up and orchestrated by the Lord in His perfect wisdom and not contrived by man's well meaning efforts.

I am eager though to stress that our purpose isn't to project onto or direct love at people... it is to help them receive what is already with them.  The love of Christ is already with them... they just need to learn to receive it... and the need for others help in this, in any case, should decrease and fade away as we grow.

In anything we do we must be careful to lead people to receive the love of Christ... not human love or compassion.  There is a fine line we must be wary of crossing.  If people are deriving comfort from the number of people praying for them I would walk very cautiously.  Many people become addicted to deriving comfort from human love and get stuck.  Some never move beyond this place, neither do they want to.  Continuing to minister into their neediness may not be doing them any favours in the longrun and can actually hinder the Lord's will for them to take the next step to maturity.  This is why being led by the Spirit in our prayers is so important.

Sometimes, as led by the Spirit, we can find ourselves not praying as is expected (but for a deeper need)... seemingly being cruel to be kind.  But, hard as it may be, we must all ultimately learn to turn to Christ and Him alone.  Our role is to facilitate this.