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VOICE OF PROPHECY - Prophetic Words
OpenHeaven.com Forum : VOICE OF PROPHECY - Prophetic Words
Subject Topic: CHURCH AND THE BODY OF CHRIST. TWO VERY DIFFERENT SUBJECTS Post Reply Post New Topic
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Posted: 08/04/2008 at 5:11pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

CHURCH AND THE BODY OF CHRIST. TWO VERY DIFFERENT SUBJECTS.

 

Our Father God sees things quite differently from the way we see things. He is, of course, the Ultimate designer. He makes things that work and which produce the intended end product.

Jesus designed and built his Church. It was designed to produce an end product. It was designed to block what the devil was doing on Planet Earth – and “the gates of Hades, the powers of the infernal region, shall not overpower it or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it.” The devil’s strongholds would have no defence against the Church Jesus said he would build.

But the intention was much bigger than that. Some thirty years later Paul told his friends at Ephesus that he was sharing a mystery that had been kept hidden through the ages and concealed until now in the mind of God who created all things through Jesus Christ.

“The purpose is that THROUGH THE CHURCH the complicated, many sided wisdom of God in all its infinite variety and innumerable aspects, might now be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities, principalities and powers in the heavenly sphere.”

That is – the Church was going to teach ANGELS. And yes – according to Mr Strong - it is God’s angels in the Heavens – not the devil’s angels on Earth. 

This is astounding. It’s too far over my head for me to comment further.

Church is NOT some celestial Mickey Mouse Club.

A couple of weeks ago was Catholic World Youth Day in Sydney Australia. It had been in planning for four years and was a huge event. The Pope came out, and more than one hundred thousand “pilgrims” flew in from overseas, and multitudes from all over Australia, to attend the activities and ceremonies. Around half a million people were at some of the venues.  And there was no getting away from it – that many of the young Roman Catholic people who showed up on the TV reports were truly born again, Holy Spirit filled sons and daughters of God Almighty. Their faces shone with that joy that only Father’s kids can come up with. T- shirts worn by Roman Catholic kids read “I love Jesus”. It was wonderful, and although some media tried so desperately to whip up some scandal – for a whole week, religion was making positive headlines for a change.

But – the ceremonies !!!! There were thousands of priests from all over the world, hundreds of bishops, many cardinals – and when they were getting ready to do their thing – comparing what I was watching with what I have just been writing about was really bothering me.

Although a number of the clergy who were interviewed on TV were obviously born again, Holy Spirit filled men – the complicated paraphernalia – to me – was very off putting. The official speeches and statements from high places were so very lacking in everything that carried anything of life or consequence. At the end of the week – I was wondering what it was all about. 

And that is a fairly accurate picture of the state of affairs in our Western churches at this time. Lots of show. Lots of genuine children of God. But caught up in fairly meaningless activities and show and performances.

Look – you know what your local church is and does. I spent the first forty six years of my life up to my eyeballs – and sometimes way over my head - in that world.

So – let’s go back to what God is looking at when he sees his church.

There was a period when I was put to intercession for a long time, and much of that time was intercession for his church. And there were times when I was allowed to share the sorrow of Jesus over the divided state of his Body. I saw a vision of – of all things – an African village - and I have never been to Africa - with the old time round native huts with high pitched conical grass roofs – and around each hut was a fence made of poles around eight or nine inches thick and eight or more feet high, driven into the ground so close they were touching each other. It was almost watertight. And I heard a voice speak out ‘ “THE FENCES MUST COME DOWN. YOU MUST LOSE YOUR INDIVIDUALITY”.

Up until that time I was enjoying friendship and fellowship with the ministers and clergy in the regional city where I was living – although I was not a member of any of their churches. I have had both the Anglican/Episcopalian and the Catholic bishops out to my place for afternoon tea.

But the day I shared that vision with them was the day I lost all those friends and there was no more fellowship with any of them.

Some time later, in the US, after spending two days with some of the cream of the ministry crop at that time, as I walked to my rental car, a grief hit me – a gut wrenching grief that came from Father – and I did not realise Father was all that involved with church. But he is. That grief was because Father had called and equipped and commissioned and empowered his ministers for the purpose of building up his church – but instead – almost to a man – these people had build either an empire or a business around their gifting. And this is breaking Father’s heart.

I wrote an article a few week ago I titled “The Western Church is a Big Phat Fony Phrord”. And so it is.

It is time to remind you again of the two “Twenty Fold Ministry” articles I wrote a few weeks ago – which are way over on pages 11 and 13 by now.

Church was designed and built to produce an end product.

And that product is MEN AND WOMEN DEVELOPED INTO BECOMING OF THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST AND THE COMPLETENESS FOUND IN HIM. DUPLICATES OF JESUS.

That is what Church exists to produce.

Here are a couple of excerpts from my new book which I am sure all of you will have on your desk by now.

In our Western church, there is a lot of talk but not much to show for it, and a lot of that is because of the mixture of world stuff pollution and religion and personal agendas and personal impurity prevalent in our modern churches. Much – if not most – of what is done in church, has little to do with God. Quite frankly – God can’t work in an environment such as is now prevalent in the Western church.  

We were chosen in Christ, by God himself, before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. We SHOULD develop into that standard. We are supposed to. It is not an option. 

However - you don’t see much of that. It’s not happening.

Church is intended to produce an end result. If that end result is not showing up – something is not happening that is supposed to be happening.

In a former life I designed and built machinery – all kinds of things - but mainly sugar cane farming equipment. (Actually, a couple of those designs are still being sold around the world - more than forty five years later - but not by me.)

When designing a machine –  you start by knowing what the end product is to be. The design is then wrapped around the conditions to be allowed for – the raw materials – the power source, etc – and from that it is just a matter of logical sequence to get one process to follow the other until the required product is popping out the business end. Most machines are fairly simple things. It is just that some need more logical sequence than others.

And machinery does not consist of one Big Wheel doing what all the other cogs and shafts and bits and pieces are designed to do.

Without calling the church a machine – it is never-the-less a device designed by the Ultimate Designer to produce an end result. And you know what that end result is. 

Paul’s illustration is of a human body with all the parts “fitly joined together” and co-operating to produce a result.

Or a building. All those bricks are useless until they are given their place and function. Until there is design and structure and components working together to produce a result.

WHY CAN’T “CHURCH” SEE THAT?????

What we are calling “church” these days is little more than a recovery and maintenance operation. There is not even pretence of development. The emphasis is on about everything you can imagine - except producing what Jesus built the church to produce.

WHY ARE WE MISSING IT ????

Right from the beginning, God intended to have a race of beings of the same class as himself. As we have said several times - God Almighty has big plans, and he needs the family team to help him achieve those plans. It is so awesome to imagine that God Almighty – the maker of the Milky Way and all the rest of Creation - could possibly need help with anything – and especially help from us.

We do well to tread carefully. We are on holy ground.

So – how do people get from being the ornery creatures we are, to becoming the beings God Almighty intends us to be? 

This is where the CHURCH comes in.

The end product – the goal of church – the results of all those logical sequences - is to produce people who have developed into being the very life and character and stature of Jesus Christ.

This is the pattern we are being carbon copied into. That is what church exists to produce.

You have never seen that happen – have you? There is a reason. Back to good old fashioned religious tradition, Biblical profligacy - and pastors.

There is an interesting summary in 1st Corinthians: 12.

 “You collectively are Christ’s body and individually members of it, each part severally and distinct, each with his own place and function.

“So God has appointed some in the church for his own use: first apostles: second prophets: third teachers: then wonder workers: then those with ability to heal the sick: helpers: administrators: speakers in different unknown tongues.

“Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all possess the power to perform miracles? Do all possess extraordinary powers of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

“But earnestly desire and zealously cultivate the greatest and best gifts and graces.”       How about that????

The obvious answer to these questions is “no”. However the questions indicate that this team of people have been trusted to exercise these abilities in their local church. And did you notice that “pastors” did not rate a mention.

Christendom has taken the 1 Corinthians 12 listing of these ministries and put them in a box labeled “The Nine Spiritual Gifts.”

These are NOT nine spiritual gifts - these are PEOPLE - George - Suzan - Bert - Roselyn - who have allowed Holy Spirit to develop them into attaining “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ” to the extent he is able to trust them with these abilities - which is just the plain natural and normal expectations of those whom Jesus said would do greater things than he did.

This team of people is set up and equipped and operational in EVERY local church and is intended to be active and functional in any typical church gathering.

Confusing?  In our church context yes!

If you are in a “church” that has a pulpit up front, and a “pastor” standing there – the same person every time - three or four times every week - looking at and talking at all those people sitting like rows of mullet in a fish shop window  - THAT IS NOT CHURCH – you CANNOT grow and develop there - get out of it. To stay there is for you to dissolve into a puddle of green religious goop.

God set up church as a device designed to build and establish the character and person of Jesus into the people in the church, through the interaction of the many sided ministry of those Holy Spirit empowered men and women who have been equipped and authorised to attend to the specialist situation they have been gifted to handle.

The process of the development we are talking about results from deliberate and intentional fellowship and interaction between two or more people who have set themselves to know God – and God. It is placing yourself where the environment is right for entering into intimacy with Holy Spirit.

Remember, the job in hand is to allow the action of his power that is at work in you, to carry out his purposes in you so you grow into maturity and develop into being the same as Jesus is. It is practical, and is the fixed and unchangeable original intention of God. Go for it.

The Church is a gathering – or assembly – of Christians – or Christ-ones – in a locality - who have begun to fellowship with each other and with God in that location. It is an Assembly of the Christ-ones in that area. The Christian Church is the Body of Christ in a given area. It is that Body that Jesus said would come against the strongholds of hell – and defeat it. It is in fact, the representation of God Almighty in a location. That’s it.

One more time, start by finding another Christian in your block, and establish rapport with that person. As I said - men with men – ladies with ladies – until you have that quorum. DO NOT discuss doctrine or Bible verses – or even have Bibles there as it will distract you and divert your attention from the job in hand.  In fact, don’t touch a Bible for a whole year. Spend that year getting to know God – the Person. Do not talk about your ex-denomination. Do not put on a “worship” CD – in fact, bin that source of religious racket.

In fact – avoid everything that used to happen at the denominational morgue. When Holy Spirit shows up, you will know what, and how, to sing – and that could be six months later. When you pray – don’t shut your eyes, but look God Almighty in the face. The only thing that happens when you kneel is, it makes your knees hurt.

And don’t think that because you did something or sang something this time, that it is what you should do next time. It isn’t – and if you do lapse back into doing your own thing, very quickly you will be right back to the religious sludge you came out of. The time is for us to be alive in fellowship with each other and communion with the Living God. Flow with him and watch the miracles happen. Start doing your own stuff and you’ll lose the lot. You have been told.

Set your heart on God – stay focused – and don’t give up. You will realise that things are changing. You will know you are moving up to the new level of connection and companionship with your God Family that satisfies Father’s heart – and yours. It is God Almighty who is at the centre of your reaching out.

This is going to take time and singleness of heart. This is not your hobby or pastime. This is the calling on your life for you to move up into what God is looking for in you and from you. You will come across distractions you didn’t know existed. What you are doing will be challenged. But there is so much at stake – stay with it and don’t quit. God will meet you and changes will be made.

None of this is really happening any place I know about or have heard of either - but what is supposed to happen is that – having stuck with it until growing into that maturity and being developed into being individually and collectively the duplicate of Jesus – just as he intended right from the beginning – YOU – COLLECTIVELY - HAVE BECOME THE REPRESENTATION OF GOD ALMIGHTY. Jesus said just two or three of you will be able to set it in motion. You are there as God Himself. You are THE BODY OF CHRIST in that location. And being the Body of Christ in that location – Holy Spirit is now free to release himself into you and among you – AND OUT FROM AMONG YOU INTO YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD.

You are now operating in that same authority as is resident in God Almighty. You are now in the position where the creative power breathed into you by the Creator of Betelgeuse is able to be released. You have now begun the work of getting this planet back in the hands of To Whom it Belongs.

That means the Government of God is ruling in your block.

Expect to see the Glory of God show up in your street.

This is going to result in the assembly of God’s people in that street – because they are a unified body or group – becoming in fact, the local government in that area. They look after each other. The Body takes responsibility for the people and situations in their area. In essence, that little group of households is its own police force, court house, welfare centre, local council – working together with God Almighty and each other to minister righteousness and responsibility in that neighbourhood.  

From within that group will be those called to be working together with God in the wider community – in business and Government – God’s style of business and God’s style of Government. Urban institutions are going to change. The Body of Christ working together with God Almighty will change it. This is consequential stuff.

Things are pretty bad in most of the areas where folk live these days. Let the Body of Christ minister life into these places where the people are. The Body of Christ is people and God fellowshipping with each other in a location where people live – right there in your own street.  Selah

 



Edited by Moderator on 01/17/2010 at 3:44pm
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Lyn McSweeney
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Posted: 08/05/2008 at 5:37pm | IP Logged Quote Lyn McSweeney

And this is breaking Father’s heart.

YES YES YES!!!!



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mariateresatee
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Posted: 08/05/2008 at 6:43pm | IP Logged Quote mariateresatee

Hi brother,

You wrote:

And I heard a voice speak out ‘ “THE FENCES MUST COME DOWN. YOU MUST LOSE YOUR INDIVIDUALITY”.

But the day I shared that vision with them was the day I lost all those friends and there was no more fellowship with any of them.

 

I had a similar vision in January 2007 that I wrote out as the opening paragraphs of a church newsletter article. Here it is:

“He wants to spill the wine.”

After this announcement, we saw a big barrel overflowing with wine. Suddenly, the barrel split into several pieces, as if cut with one stroke by an invisible round, multi-bladed cutter. Like orange peel wedges, the barrel pieces opened, pushed forcefully down by the abundantly spilling wine. The wine spilled, bursting forth and inundating the entire earth.

To understand this vision, I have to tell you that, at the time of the vision, we saw our church as having a "wine barrel" wineskin. About ten years before that, God told our church to replace our "corked wine bottle" wineskin with an "open barrel" wineskin. That is, we must replace our church structure (which was the traditional senior pastor as cork and the other ministry heads as bottle neck) by something that would allow the wine of the Holy Spirit to fall directly on the church's general membership and to overflow to the unsaved (hence the "open" wine barrel). We did obey the Lord at that time. But in early 2007, it seemed like the Lord wanted our wine barrel wineskin destroyed!

I've found it really strange that since I wrote down that "He wants to spill the wine" vision, a wedge seems to have been planted between me and my seniors.



Edited by Moderator on 01/17/2010 at 3:45pm
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alicia myers
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Posted: 08/05/2008 at 11:18pm | IP Logged Quote alicia myers

I can't get enough of your spiritual insight Lawrence. You are soooo valuable to the Kingdom of God, what a treasure.

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Posted: 08/06/2008 at 12:21am | IP Logged Quote Lyn McSweeney



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Posted: 08/07/2008 at 2:58pm | IP Logged Quote S Richardson

Rituals and sacrifices always separate man from God.  Even rituals and sacrifices initiated by God Himself, will eventually replace intimacy with God.  Is this not what the Old Testament continually reveals to us through the prophets? Will this be not the message coming forth from the true prophets of God in this age?  To lay down all our rituals and sacrifices that have taken God's place in our lives?  The call to return to Him in truth, to intimacy.  The church of today is the same as the church in Jesus' day, full and overflowing with blind religious leaders who have taken God's name to use for their own desires!  They inflict heavy burdens on His sheep today as they did then!  They stand in the foyers of the church and steal  from the sheep just as they did in the courts of the Temple.  They claim they know Him and yet look nothing like Him!  He walked in their midst and they spit behind His back, making sure no one saw!  Do Not follow them, get away while you still can choose!  Do not feel sorry for these blind guides....for Jesus has given them many opportunities to change their course, and they would not!  BE SET FREE!!

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mariateresatee
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Posted: 08/07/2008 at 11:31pm | IP Logged Quote mariateresatee

Thanks for the encouragement, Alicia. I believe my seniors just have a blind spot at the moment. They're real servants of God and I'm pretty sure Father would bring them around in His time. Meanwhile, my husband and I need all the courage we can receive from the Lord, and all the encouragement from all you people, to be able to follow Him wherever He leads.

Yes! to your "I can't get enough of your spiritual insight Lawrence. You are soooo valuable to the Kingdom of God, what a treasure. ".



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Posted: 08/08/2008 at 6:03am | IP Logged Quote alicia myers

mariateresatee wrote:

Thanks for the encouragement, Alicia. I believe my seniors just have a blind spot at the moment. They're real servants of God and I'm pretty sure Father would bring them around in His time. Meanwhile, my husband and I need all the courage we can receive from the Lord, and all the encouragement from all you people, to be able to follow Him wherever He leads.

Yes! to your "I can't get enough of your spiritual insight Lawrence. You are soooo valuable to the Kingdom of God, what a treasure. ".



Yes, it is a blind-spot..not forever though. I will pray for you and your husband. God will strengthen you and continue to renew your strength and courage in him over and over again. For the battle is not ours, but it is the Lord's. He will fight for us and through us sister. He is our refuge, and in him we trust.

Psalm 91

 1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
       will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. [a]

 2 I will say [b] of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress,
       my God, in whom I trust."

 3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare
       and from the deadly pestilence.

 4 He will cover you with his feathers,
       and under his wings you will find refuge;
       his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

 5 You will not fear the terror of night,
       nor the arrow that flies by day,

 6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
       nor the plague that destroys at midday.

 7 A thousand may fall at your side,
       ten thousand at your right hand,
       but it will not come near you.

 8 You will only observe with your eyes
       and see the punishment of the wicked.

 9 If you make the Most High your dwelling—
       even the LORD, who is my refuge-

 10 then no harm will befall you,
       no disaster will come near your tent.

 11 For he will command his angels concerning you
       to guard you in all your ways;

 12 they will lift you up in their hands,
       so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

 13 You will tread upon the lion and the cobra;
       you will trample the great lion and the serpent.

 14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him;
       I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.

 15 He will call upon me, and I will answer him;
       I will be with him in trouble,
       I will deliver him and honor him.

 16 With long life will I satisfy him
       and show him my salvation."




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Posted: 08/08/2008 at 5:20pm | IP Logged Quote mariateresatee

Thanks so much again, Alicia. And thanks for Psalm 91! Father knows what exactly we need at the moment and gives it through His children like you. Great blessings to you!

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Posted: 09/10/2008 at 1:23pm | IP Logged Quote mariateresatee

"...as I walked to my rental car, a grief hit me – a gut wrenching grief that came from Father.... That grief was because Father had called and equipped and commissioned and empowered his ministers for the purpose of building up his church – but instead – almost to a man – these people had build either an empire or a business around their gifting. And this is breaking Father’s heart.

"Church was designed and built to produce an end product.

"And that product is MEN AND WOMEN DEVELOPED INTO BECOMING OF THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST AND THE COMPLETENESS FOUND IN HIM. DUPLICATES OF JESUS."

Hello, brother Laurence. Two nights ago I experienced that "gut-wrenching grief" from Father after a horrible dream I had about the state of the church worldwide. I'm still very weepy up till today, feeling what Father must feel about us leaders of His church, who have--as you say, almost to a man, and probably unknowingly--prevented the ordinary men and women in the church to develop to the measure of the full stature of Jesus.

I can only praise Father that He has ushered in a new season of divine revelation and enablement. As more of us leaders see the abominable things that we have done in the name of serving Him and of feeding and protecting His sheep, we'd repent and get down on our faces before Him.

We'd stop chewing the cud and feeding the sheep with it on a spoon. We'd stop putting water in feeding bottles for the sheep to suck on. We'd stop keeping the sheep in the sheep house all the time. We'd release them to graze in the grasslands and drink from the streams. After all, sheep are born with natural instincts for these things. And then we'd see fat, fully grown sheep--not anymore 20- or 30-year-old malnourished sheep with legs gone lame from lack of use. And wonder of wonders, the sheep now could morph into a multitude of shepherds before our very eyes!



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Posted: 09/10/2008 at 2:02pm | IP Logged Quote Lyn McSweeney

We'd stop chewing the cud and feeding the sheep with it on a spoon. We'd stop putting water in feeding bottles for the sheep to suck on. We'd stop keeping the sheep in the sheep house all the time. We'd release them to graze in the grasslands and drink from the streams. After all, sheep are born with natural instincts for these things. And then we'd see fat, fully grown sheep--not anymore 20- or 30-year-old malnourished sheep with legs gone lame from lack of use. And wonder of wonders, the sheep now could morph into a multitude of shepherds before our very eyes!

YES!!!!!!



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Posted: 09/11/2008 at 8:20am | IP Logged Quote DaleRosser

Amen brother Tony, that was very good, I concur!

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Posted: 09/11/2008 at 11:11pm | IP Logged Quote mariateresatee

Hello Tony, I don't know about "fences," but I see the church, not as staying inside fences, but as marching forward and breaking down the "gates" of hell, or as light taking over all the dark places of the world, including the darkness in the church herself and in our own hearts.

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Posted: 09/11/2008 at 11:22pm | IP Logged Quote alicia myers

Amen again!...And to think I thought I was losing it or going astray a few years ago when I got sick of church as usual.......I mean really just sick and tired to the core...

Edited by alicia myers on 09/11/2008 at 11:23pm


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