Posted: 08/18/2009 at 7:11am | IP Logged

REVOLUTIONARY CONFUSION

The Lord impressed upon me about five months ago, before these town hall meetings the potential for civil unrest, He likened it to the revolutionary war. The unrest He said was going to be motivated by what appeared to be a righteous cause but the antagonism was going to come from the self righteous. The analogy  He used was the analogy from the revolutionary war of the "shot heard around the world."

I was impressed with the fact that to this day no one knows who fired the first shot. The events are confused, the motivations skewed and distorted. I was told the very self righteousness in those events cloaked the underlying motivations, the real events, hid the first shot fired.

Because of the injustice in our government the issues that would be normally apparent to the general populace are becoming more and more grey - more and more confused, heated, reactionary.

Service is the key. To serve and protect.

When greed sets precedence instead of service, the middle pillar of any Government is skewed - perception is confused. What was obvious, "self evident"  like helping an old lady across the street - treating your brother fairly, takes back stage to more expedient "concerns" - thus the confusion that leads to frenzy - the ability to plan, the ability to ajudicate is lost.

I think a sign of this erosion is utter confusion, a darkened understanding  - morals are hidden, obscured so people can justify a base instinct that is devoid of light.

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PHOENIX – About a dozen people carrying guns, including one with a military-style rifle, milled among protesters outside the convention center where President Barack Obama was giving a speech Monday ...

See link

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_pro testers_guns 

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The confusion and reactionary atmosphere on both "sides" is a symptom of the CAUSE.

God isnt left or right He is in the middle - it is humans who find it impossible to find the justice in the center.

Have you ever noticed that the left and right conspiracy theorists accuse each other of exactly the same things - subversion? This is an example of a skewed vision.

Dream below posted: 03/09/2009 at 8:16am

I had a dream over the weekend that illustrated the symbiotic power interrelating self fulfilling prophecies and our bias and forgiveness. 

Self fulfilling prophecy in this context is a prophecy that is tainted by our biases and is actually a wish fulfillment when the "prophecy" or the situation matches our biases.

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I was at a relative’s house watching the super bowl on a big screen T.V. The national anthem was coming to a close and everyone was waiting for the fighter jets to do their dramatic fly over the stadium.

They were right on time. 

Suddenly I was there flying behind their formation in the sky as they roared past the stadium.

Oddly, the fighter jets did not turn back to the base however but continued in formation heading towards the city.

When the jets were in range of the city instead of the triangular formation they formed a line and fired new high tech weapondary at the city shattering buildings.

I was back in my relative’s living room and said, "Did you just see that? Did you just see that OUR OWN jets attacked US???"

They looked back from the T.V. screen as if I had lost my sense ... "Of course, we told you before that we are at war!"

My relatives in my mind completely missed the obvious point that it was an inside job. They were not incredulous. They only saw what they had been told to see. 

Or so I thought.  

The above dream illustrates the confusion in prophetic sight. Each side of the interpretation of what had just transpired on the 'screen' was ready to give an entirely different interpretation-justification based upon who they thought should get the blame.

Those who wanted the terrorists to be guilty saw only the event through that lens substantiating their un-forgiveness.

The jets were American. The buildings the American jets fired upon were in an American city. Now suppose the pilots were later proven to be American.

In an unforgiving heart the answer, the prophecy is apparent. The Americans are not guilty. Period. Or conversely the Middle Easterners are not guilty - period.

If however there was forgiveness in the prophets heart the event changes. Perhaps there was some other factors involved, perhaps the events that Super Bowl could be really translated, could be coherent.  

Perhaps, at the very least we could reserve judgment.

In order for a prophecy to hit its mark it has to facilitate the total scope. And the total scope of an event always comes into focus when the motivating forces of the least among us are heard, the true voices of the people are heard - not the deceiving echo's of self fulfillment.

Our radar can be accurate by care-fully connecting the dots on the screen through reconciling them.

End of Dream

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When Christians become elitists instead of reconcilers our role as a restraining, equalizing element is removed and right wing extremism can be fueled, is "endorsed." (people look to us as an example)

There is a fine line between righteousness sown in peace and "righteousness” used as a platform.

We are to be reconcilers in this world not antagonizers.

Blessings,

Vincent

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 10:55am | IP Logged

"restraining equalizing element" that is so very well put Vince. That is exactly what His Kingdom produces as it is, just that. and so the ministry of reconciliation is demonstrating His Kingdom in Spirit and power/rule over the imbalance on earth in and through us. this really affects every sphere of life. in your sharing here too is awakening to His Kingdom. we don't live our life based upon the externals but upon the internal/inner Life that penetrates and pierces through the externals by way of penetrating/piercing through the internal/inner core of. straight to the heart.

the motivation of all service, must be Love and Love honors, respects, lifts up.

i have to go for awhile but will be back! there is alot of wisdom here in what you are sharing Vince.

~wisdom and knowledge will be the stability of your times, and strength of salavation~

 shared this on another thread..in blue is what someone else had shared a number of years ago..

"No living man has seen the deep scarlet colour of the Mantle of Justice soaked in Love worn by the Church and when we go up and go forth in the authority of that mantle even the very rocks groan, utter and cry justice.”

the Mantle of Justice being Christ and the depth of Love,humility, forgiveness, mercy etc. that poured out through the cross... the embrace of Father reconciling unto Himself through His Son.

it is time man sees the Mantle of Justice soaked in Love worn by the church.

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 11:27am | IP Logged

"the Mantle of Justice being Christ and the depth of Love,humility, forgiveness, mercy etc. that poured out through the cross... the embrace of Father reconciling unto Himself through His Son."

Kathy ~ it is time man sees the Mantle of Justice soaked in Love worn by the church.

WOW Amen !

May His Kingdom come. The "upside down" Kingdom that lifts up the weak, gives them Voice. Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy.

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 1:54pm | IP Logged

Vince,

Concerning your article that you referenced:

I've been watching the news concerning these people who are carrying guns and I have heard them being described as right-wing religious fanatics.....amongst other things.....

Perhaps I have not yet heard, or at least missed the names of those people who were carrying those guns. And all reports say there were "ABOUT" twelve.......ummmmm, just how many were there?, 12, 10, 2, 5????? Not hard to count to twelve.

And if these folks names are not even known, than how is it to be said that they are part of the "religious right-wing" if they don't even know the peoples names?

I am going to be bold enough to say that I would not doubt for one second that the left orchestrated this and these folks may be nothing more than political "plants" by the extreme left.

I know this leans towards a conspiracy theory. But you know what, the word is in the dictionary.

And your statement of the mantle of justice being soaked in love by the church.........I couldn't agree more! But love isn't just a feel good all the time, free pass for inhumanities. Quite frankly, love is both beautiful and brutal.

Please do not take this as I am advocating violence in any manner, 'cause I most assuredly am not! I'm just saying that sometimes love is even sending YOUR SON to the CROSS to be butchered for humantiy, this is the part of brutality that I speak of. We can call it beauty, but Christ would have said differently at the time! The result however, for humanity.........................well.............you know the rest.

QUOTE from Benjamin Franklin:

To relieve the misfortunes of our fellow creatures is concurring with the Deity; it is godlike, but, if we provide encouragement for laziness, and supports for folly, may we not be found fighting against the order of God and Nature, which perhaps has appointed want and misery as proper punishmets for, and cautions against, as well as necessary consequences of, idleness and extravagance? Whenever we attempt to amend the scheme of Providence and to interfere with government of the world, we had need be very circumspect, lest we do more harm than good.

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 3:47pm | IP Logged

QUOTE from Benjamin Franklin:

"To relieve the misfortunes of our fellow creatures is concurring with the Deity; it is godlike, but, if we provide encouragement for laziness, and supports for folly, may we not be found fighting against the order of God and Nature, which perhaps has appointed want and misery as proper punishmets for, and cautions against, as well as necessary consequences of, idleness and extravagance? Whenever we attempt to amend the scheme of Providence and to interfere with government of the world, we had need be very circumspect, lest we do more harm than good."

Hi James,

"Whenever we attempt to amend the scheme of the providence and to interfere with government of the world ...

"idleness and extravagance"

In the governments "of the world" they tend to lean to either pole - the left (idleness) the right (extravagence)

Service is the middle pillar that holds the balance.

God = Service.

The church and the government of late has forgotten the cross - the ultimate service, the middle pillar.

Thus the confusion and reactionary attitudes on both the left and the right.

The Cross is the Great Equalizer.

Blessings James,

Vincent

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 4:20pm | IP Logged

James,

i think that is the point. where there is no "restraining, equalizing element" whether in government, media, business, `religion' etc. what is seen and heard and propagated is bias. the restraining equalizing element being His Kingdom, His Governing where there is and propagtes righteousness(right-relating, right relationship) joy and peace. in living and walking in Spirit, with and in Whom there is no respecter of persons( being He is the Spirit of Christ Jesus) and our Father makes it to rain on the just and unjust( blesses).  all bias divides, separates into the `haves and haves not.' so in government we see as in left and right, business we see corporate `big wigs' and the employees of, in religion we see denominationalism, etc.

when bias is removed by His Kingdom come, coming through His own who live out of the "not of this world" Kingdom, those given to Him will turn toward...repent. kings will turn to the brightness of its rising.

do we yet understand that His wrath was poured out upon His Son Jesus, that His wrath was fully satisified, His justice satisfied? when we look at the cross and when we look and hear the words spoken while He hung upon, and i mean truly behold.. we then begin to know intimately/enter into the fellowship of His suffering and from their( and not until then) the power of His resurrection.

it is time man sees the Mantle of Justice soaked in Love worn by the church

is it time? i say yes..it's time

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 5:33pm | IP Logged

Kathy ~ ..."kings will turn to the brightness of its rising ..."

Isaiah 9:6 ~ For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

We desired a King, a King is the reflection of the people.

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 5:53pm | IP Logged

Kathy and Vince,

I agree completely with "Kingdom Order". Apart from this everything else is bias,  and "out of kilter".

Vince, i guess i haven't been clear in what i have been trying to say. My confusion is in how you say over and over you have no bias, and yet you advocate many of the lefts ideas, even to the point of taking leftist talking points when describing what is currently happening.

I am not trying to be critical at all. I just don't get how you speak of being neither left or right and that you are somehow in the middle (service) and yet support primarily (based on your many postings) leftist ideas.

This just doesn't make sense to me.....do you see what i am saying..? once again believe me when i say i mean no wrong towards you, but it is somewhat confusing to me.

thank you

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 5:55pm | IP Logged

QUOTE from Benjamin Franklin

"To relieve the misfortunes of our fellow creatures is concurring with the Deity; it is godlike, but, if we provide encouragement for laziness, and supports for folly, may we not be found fighting against the order of God and Nature, which perhaps has appointed want and misery as proper punishmets for, and cautions against, as well as necessary consequences of, idleness and extravagance? Whenever we attempt to amend the scheme of Providence and to interfere with government of the world, we had need be very circumspect, lest we do more harm than good."

He is right in the sense of describing the imperfection, the imbalance, the necessary evils in a fallen world.

A "government" of nature. Natural Selection.

A Free Market - Social Darwinism.

Might Makes "Right."

In this fallen world that is the "order" of the day.

That is why as the Governments of the world "progress" as they "evolve" injustice is the natural result of the market that needs human casualty to thrive.

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 6:18pm | IP Logged

James I would be glad and answer the question Sir,

it is because our concepts of left and right are themselves skewed.

They are illusionary.They reinforce bias. They inflame. They are illogical.

The organization - getting there - to an ideal society is the issue.

Conserving, storing resources is not a left or right issue because it is in the distribution of the resources where they both falter - the organization. Either "side" dosent want to be concidered a "worker bee". (selflessness -service) That is the nature of a system where rising to the top is paramount - it dosent work ! The foundation dosent support it ! The problem is imbalance.

The fallacy of using conservatism or liberalism as a platform can be summed up in this statement -

One mans war is another mans work,

and one mans work is another mans war.

Life feeds on life -

That is the problem.

So we can see then from the above that we cannot define right or left as valid paradigms. At their heart they both miss the most important thing - the nature of true utility.

An Organic Source.

How we distribute our resources is an indication of how reactionary we are.

We will demystify our notion of Government when we understand that the primary capacity of power is not control but circulation.

In order for something to circulate properly there has to be an organizational structure that is free from the constraints of partiality. 

The resources are already there - we just have to set them free, to let them flow.

This is true freedom, a liberty freed from the superstition that creates bias.

Blessings,

Vincent

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 7:50pm | IP Logged

that was my exact thought also James, "out of kilter."

there is only One in and through Whom the balance..Kingdom is founded, being the Chief Cornerstone and summed up in and that is Christ. and it is He and His King/Domain that is in us and among us that is the full expectation of glory ( Christ in you the hope of glory). 

yes Vince and it is we who give Him His rightful place of Authority and making Him Who is the Authority known by the life we live, His character which is the fruit of His abiding Spirit as evidence. He is King of kings( kings, that be us : ) and Lord of lords( lords, that be us : )

here is another quote from the same person mentioned before..

 "The Eternal Words of Life are the Fruit of the Spirit - LOVE, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness,Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self-Control - the very stuff of the Inner Life of the Trinity - all flowing through LOVE.

It is LOVE that breaks our captivity and opens our Hearts to revelation and renews us spiritually.

The Trinity are LOVE and to become Christlike is to LOVE."

we no longer live or move or have our being as unchanged men and women, but make known His Supremecy in and over all things. as we truely enter into the fellowship of His suffering..as His Body in earth, then the power of His resurrection/Life will manifest that the current state of the world has yet to see, but indeed will. and the discernable appearing of the glory of the Lord will fill the earth as the water covers the sea.~together, in union with we proclaim: the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ and He will reign forever~

there is quite a bit here Vince, good stuff! and i want to be able to read through again before responding any further, if at all : )

Posted: 08/18/2009 at 9:27pm | IP Logged

Kriston,

just want to make a quick comment and then i'm off to get some sleep lol been a long day with very little

i do hear what you are saying but as said, a quick comment. God is in the middle in this sense of the word.. Jesus Christ is the center and so it speaks of being centered in Him and His Kingdom and living and moving and having our being from the Supreme Centrality of Christ.

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 6:37am | IP Logged

Amen all, - James, Kathy, Kriston

the poles inflame they are mere reflections of ourselves - the further along we are on either pole - the bigger your reflection is and the less you can see others ...

Kriston ~ "Lets get on with the Kingdom ..."  

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 9:23am | IP Logged

amen

Kriston,

"God is concerned about the health of people, and your passing legislation to take care of everyone or only cover those who can afford it will not keep Him from bringing miraculous healing to the nations."

hah! amen, my daughter and i were talking about this yesterday. He can not be legislated..contained. glory to God and this is where it comes to obeying God rather than man.  can't stop the fire of His Love flowing from His own.

yes indeed, His Kingdom far surpasses.. not a baptist, methodist, pentecostal, charismatic, catholic, non-denom, etc. we are sons of God, followers of the Lord Jesus Christ Who calls us friends. and regardless if one may be part or call themselves by any of the above mentioned we have fellowship one with another because we have been brought into the Light of His Kingdom and therefore walk accordingly. they will know you are my disciples if you have Love one for another. His Kingdom removes all barriers : )

~and of the increase of His Government there will be no end~

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 9:35am | IP Logged

" He can not be legislated..contained "

Yes and that is why He cannot be in-forced.

The middle pillar cannot be built by men. Made to be an edifice. Wooden.  

"not a baptist, methodist, pentecostal, charismatic, catholic, non-denom"

Thus the wisdom in keeping church non in-forcible by the state.

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 10:13am | IP Logged

 i vote Vince Sucec for president

agree the middle pillar can not be built by men, but rather established in and through His own born of Spirit, co-laboring with Him in it...Your Kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 10:24am | IP Logged

Isaiah 2:4 ~ And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks:

  nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

There is enough ~ for everyone!  

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 11:10am | IP Logged

Praise God!  Praise God!  Now, this is a true picture of health care reform.  To God alone be the glory!  The love of God is for us all and He says: lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.....that is Jesus health care plan.  I am so grateful that He does not leave out anyone.  He did ask the rich man to sell all and follow Him.  Where was He going?  To the sick,lame,blind,dead and mute.  He taught His disciples to do the same.  Peter, Paul and the other disciples had the anointing of JESUS CHRIST.  They did not have medicare, medicaid or private insurance.  Just think if the church today manifested the yoke destroying power of ALMIGHTY GOD, there would be no debates about healthcare reform unless it came from those who sought to kill Jesus.  Peter and those guys were so bad and ruined for Jesus that they were accused of turning the world upside down (Acts 17).

I am currently reading Heidi Baker's book "Compelled by Love" and i am on my kneees weeping.  She doesn't mention HealthCare or private insurance, but she does mention the dead being raised (and not in a hospital), lame walking, deaf hearing, blind eyes opened.  It seems the western world is worried about the wrong things.  If our focus was TRULY on Christ, WE, as christians would put the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and hospitals out of business.  The secular world would be coming to the body of Christ for assurance in a God who heals, delivers and set the captives free. The rich would bring their wealth (the wealth of the wicked is laid up for the righteous), thinking they can buy the anointing and market it !  Well enough said.    

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 11:33am | IP Logged

Amen Susan ...

Heidi Baker coined the phrase, "Upside down Kingdom."

THE GREAT PHYSICIANS HEALTH PLAN ~ MUTUAL ASSURANCE !!

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 12:21pm | IP Logged

amen Susan!

~compelled by Love~

eye has not seen nor ear heard neither have entered into the heart/mind of man the things which God has prepared for those who Love Him. BUT God has revealed them unto us by His Spirit...

check this out..

THE SHEER INCOMPREHENSIBLE HUGENESS OF GOD ALMIGHTY. You have no idea what you have got yourself involved in. I’m trying to help you find out.

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 12:36pm | IP Logged

Susan,

The "Book Review" forum listed Laurence Lilley's book, " And God Said I Have A Dream.  I am in the process of ordering that one because of this article.  Be blessed! 

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 1:05pm | IP Logged

Susan, Kathy ~ Awesome pic of Heidi Baker and an Orb

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 1:15pm | IP Logged

you will be blessed reading through " And God Said I Have A Dream"

Heidi Baker Iris Ministries   compelled by Love

Posted: 08/19/2009 at 9:18pm | IP Logged

the thread has now been separated and posts can be found here: REVOLUTIONARY CONFUSION  in the Current Events Forum,  where discussion can continue

Thank you,

Posted: 08/20/2009 at 6:42am | IP Logged

Amen ...