Posted: 12/16/2009 at 1:02pm | IP Logged

I am writing this to help people clarify just what FATHER is saying in this hour, Father is speaking loudly. But it is important to know that what He means by what He is saying and what we THINK He means by what He is saying is many times NOT he same thing.

I have learned that many if not most dreams are interpreted awry because of false concepts of first of all who Father is, and secondly, because of false concepts in Christianity.

#1 I see many taking dreams literally that are not meant as literal, but have symbolic meaning. God has ALWAYS spoken symbolically and with pictures. Jesus spoke parables to the masses, and gave understanding to only a few who were faithful with that understanding. 

#2 It is important before you run with a dream or interpretation to ask Father what it means. i have had dreams that i did not know, but when I asked I received the understanding of it from The Holy Spirit.

Concerning these days we are in,  many are have sober messages and dreams and want to apply them in fleshly situations that are simply external manifestation of the real world, the spirit realm. This tends to cause people to become fearful and war in the flesh, when Father is trying to make another point altogether.

Today is the day of the expression of Father in the face of His children. As Christ was sent to the world as the perfect expression of His Father, so in this day we His sons are being sent as His expression. Christ is being made manifest in His brothers and sisters. It is important to interpret dreams and words with God's purpose for the hour in mind, and not by teachings from people who learned and taught them by men's own wisdom and understanding. This is not the hour of a rapture or destruction of the earth, it is the hour of great transition and transformation of God's sons into the likeness and image of Christ.  In THIS all of creation is shaking and trembling. Christ is come, in you...

Kris

Posted: 12/16/2009 at 2:18pm | IP Logged

I understand what you are saying, but we must also remember that the spirit world manifests in the physical world.  And there is most certainly physical destruction coming upon the land.  Look at the Phillipines. we must be careful not to dismiss the prophecies of others simply b/c we disagree with it.  We are each give different areas to 'work' in.  Some warn of coming disasters (which is actually an act of mercy), some encourage and lift up, some heal, etc.  We must look at the whole picture, not just the things that are easy to digest.  Some the the Words that God is giving IS full of anger and wrath.  He is a loving God, yet He is also a God of Justice.  Can we truly believe that our country can put in an express lane to kill unborn children, or that our preachers can lead people to death and not expect destruction?  There is nothing that makes America different from Rome.  We aren't invincible, and we're not nearly that 'good guys' that we think we are. God is angry with America.

Posted: 12/16/2009 at 5:22pm | IP Logged

Interesting topic; and, good points raised by all.

Regarding the interpretation, and indeed - even the posting or declaration of dreams/visions/words from God:  yes, it is very important to be lead by holy spirit in determining the validity, and interpretation, of dreams/visions/words from God.  Too often, people try to think about what such and such means... when there are so many variables to consider that only God, and Christ working within us by way of holy spirit, can know if the dream/vision/word is even meant for us to understand.

I've been in services where true, and valid, words from God have been spoken... and it could not have applied to me in the slightest... but, I was still blessed, 1) because it was a 'Word' from God, and 2) because I knew God was speaking to others in the room.

Anytime, ANYONE speaks of God and His Word, you should be "checking" to see if it is a valid 'Word' from God.  First off, it is a good habit to get into; 2nd, it is good to practice - and exercise - your holy spirit gift so you may further your own personal walk with God; 3rd, God says to trust no person, but to check the scriptures, and to check your understanding, to see if those things be so.

Does that mean you are supposed to "check" your beloved Pastor? that world reknowned Evangelist? You Husband? Wife? Prayer Partner? The Prophet that EVERYONE says is so right on?

When it comes to God's Word, yes... you should always make certain 1) that you understand; 2) if you don't understand, consider the words, ask, the Father, check with holy spirit; maybe "put it on the back burner" to dwell on; 3) ask!; or 4) just accept it as words spoken and then just let it go... learn from it, consider it, but... if the words are not something that you get anything from... let it go and pray about it, asking God and holy spirit to help you with your understanding.  Sometimes, by letting it go, in our minds, we understand it better.

And, of course, if the dream/vision/word contradict God's Word (or your understanding of God's Word), then, go through the above process (which is NOT set in stone, by the way!) and reject the words, or just let it go... depending, spiritually on the best course of action.

Bottom line is... trust God.  Everyone else - including ourselves - check against God's Word. (Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but Verify".  That is good to remember.)

As far as the "hour" or the "season" that we are in; I go by the same basic principle; consider, learn, listen... but ultimately... check everything against the Word of God.

For example, and this is JUST an example (I don't want to introduce another, different 'topic within a topic'), there is good evidence that the year we are living in is not actually 2009 (in God's timetable) but it could actually be 2012, or even 2013 A.D... after the birth of Jesus!  (LOL  Now that could raise a few eye brows!).  I'm not even certain that todays date, in God's eyes, is December 16th!  (And, no, that's not a reference to the Jewish year, etc) 

My point being, when it comes to "the world" and the things of the world... trust God and His Word 1st... everything else 2nd. And know that one day, we shall know even as we are known... and, oh, what a Day of Glory and Rejoicing THAT will be!

Posted: 12/16/2009 at 5:41pm | IP Logged

Kriston Couchey wrote: Julie, It is not the destruction of the earth that is coming, it is the destruction of the system of men's works that is coming. Father is purifying out of a love that is angry at the perversion and destruction of that which Father loves. and it is called wrath. This is something to rejoice over, Babylon is falling and good riddance to it. Lets not focus on Babylon and it's piddly constitutions and man made rules. Father's eyes are focused on one thing, His son's Bride. And he will remove anything that gets in the way of the union of Christ with His people. THAT is the word of the hour and NOT my opinion. There is one call, to repentance and submission to the king of Kings. To be in rebellion and unbelief will cost you your soul, that is wrath enough. Lets be focused on what He is focused on today, bringing forth a pure and Holy people. Kris

I agree with this, for sure.  However,when God, in His great mercy, warns of an earthquake, do you not think it appropriate that we be merciful as well and warn others.  Even (or especially) the unbelievers?  Do you not think that God sent His prophets to warn those in the Phillipines of the disasters to come upon them?  How unkind would it be to keep hidden the wisdom God gives us.  When God says to warn His people we should do just that, whether or not it is recieved.  To do otherwise would be to have thier blood on our hands.  We must warn. If they refuse the word, then it is thier own foolishness that destroys them. God is instructing His watchmen, He is giving us dreams and visions.  He compells us to warn others. I do not want to stand before Him and say I that did not do as He commanded.  And neither do others.  Therefore, we must let them speak. Perhaps some are confused or misled, but that should not cause us to hinder those who do speak for God.  Let's weigh each message individually, not dismiss the entire category.  ; )

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 6:44am | IP Logged

I learned a long time ago to : "receive the good; reject the bad".  When a believer speaks a 'Word' from God, oft times, they may get two or three sentences from God, then add maybe another line or two from their own mind or will. It has become popular, especially on the internet, to get a 'Word' from God and turn it into a whole teaching.  You see that - a lot - on one of the most popular prophecy sites (mixed in among the advertisements selling things).

The point is - receive the 'Words' from God, consider the other words, and thank God that He still speaks to His people today!

It is easy to wail before the Lord and proclaim that "I, only I" remain (in my house, my church, my city, whatever)... Elijah, one of the greatest of the prophets of God did that.

The primary thing to remember is that God works within many... even those who are not where they should be.... look at Balaam! and Jonah!

I thank God for every single person that has the spirit of God inside! Yes, it saddens me that many allow God to only truly work within a small portion of their lives... but... I was there, too, at several points in my life.

But, praise God, we can still pray for them, encourage them, admonish them - according to God's Word - and look forward to that time when we all stand before the throne, in unity, singing holy, holy, holy...

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 8:14am | IP Logged

David,

I agree, we must learn to discern. This was not written to discourage prophecy. But to help shed a little more light on it. It is true, I personally have added my own words to Father's. It is still a temptation to do so to make a point. We don't throw out prophecy, we judge it. We are commanded to let others prophecy and each should judge it.

When I speak of pure words I am speaking of measure of purity of a word. James Goll is one man whom I have great respect for. I have heard pure words from him that are wonderful.

He talks of Andrew Murray, who was one of the preparers of heart before the Azuza Street and the outpouring at the turn of that century. Andrew Murray heard God clearly concerning many things and his written works are still inspiring to me and many.

But Andrew Murry OPPOSED the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Azuza because He had His own ideas of what God was doing in the hour in which He lived. I am concerned many will miss what Father is doing like Him because while they love God and have great understanding and revelation, they still have places where religion and the mind of the flesh are tainting their understanding of what God is doing in the hour in which they live.

If you are prophesying God as bent on vengeance when He is bent on bringing forth a new day of release that has vengeance as one element for the unrepentant, you are giving the wrong message for the hour. Millions will die in the next few decades, must they be warned? YES!, but God is NOT drawing them to repentance through expressing only anger, He is doing it through revealing Christ in His people. BOTH the kindness and severity of God must be expressed. One without the other means you are not geting to know the fullness of His person. and if you are not experiencing, growing in,  and expressing both these attributes, you are not going to be progressing in Him in what He wants to fully release in you.

Kriston

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 8:24am | IP Logged

It is when we presume to take the wrath of God into our own hands that there is the distortion of perspective.

We are always to take the stand (as a witness in a court proceeding) of mercy.

There is a testing therein for the prophet - will he get angry at the things that God would show him: the injustice, the poverty, the sin -

- if he does God cannot show him anymore those things because his emotional attachments to those things will puff him up and distort the word given and the direction to be taken.

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 8:42am | IP Logged

Vince,

I agree, good point. God showed Jonah the wickedness of Ninevah and told Him He was going to bring judgment. Father's heart was to have mercy, that they not be destroyed. But Jonah took the offense Himself and became bitter toward the people, expecially when they did not get what they had coming. Bitter prophets i see who will not progress until they lose thier bitterness.

Kris

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 8:46am | IP Logged

yes ... it is about being clear enough to SEE ahead - it is directional. If we get caught up in short sighted pre-justices - the valleys will be very low (need hunger poverty) and the mountains very high - (success, the pinnacle, the "church") He is about clearing our vision through the clarity in compassion ...

Blessings,

Vincent

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 9:02am | IP Logged

MJ ~ "And even then we still only hear part of the whole picture because we are not God and not able to perceive the whole thread of all human interaction as God does."

Yes the whole human thread ~

Prophet as witness - honoring ALL in His Household

http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=27238

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 9:08am | IP Logged

AMEN MJ,

Are we willing to die to our own ideas and truths?

Let me add that converse to bitter prophets, if one is unwilling to confront with the truth of Judgement in love, they will not progress either. I have seen stagnant ministries that have decided to believe that God no longer will hold a standard of holiness to mankind, and all now get a free pass. These also do not progress and fade away into stagnant pools of powerlessness in truth and spirit.

I have warned people and they have died or had terrible things happen to them because they would not repent. It is all about one thing, have you lost YOUR will to be completley submitted to His?

If i had a dollar for every false prophecy sourced in someones politcal or nationalistic ideology i would have a great Christmas (Just kidding).  Jonah's bitterness was sourced in racism and nationalism. These are party spirit issues the American church has yet to overcome. I have seen it on OH many times. when we lose our own life, liberty, and pursuit happiness, and find REAL life in Him, then we might be ready to prophesy purely.

Kris

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 9:32am | IP Logged

MJ Harris ~ "sometimes He has to stand by and let bad things happen to a person as a consequence of their own actions but it hurts Him to have to do so."

Hmmmm ... it just occured to me that the lord rose above the storm (natural consequence) and stilled it, the judgement is upon the flesh, the old man - the natural, fallen order of things. There have been mighty men of God that have fallen with the same illnesses that the unsaved have fallen to. The creation was subject to vanity. The power of sin is death. What is the root of sin? The love of money - selfishness.

Death and vanity are symbiotic - but faith worketh by Love.

Perhaps it is in the discerning between the kingdom order and the natural order  - judgement - natural consequence / punishment - faith  ect.

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 12:03pm | IP Logged

Vince,

Kriston ~ I disagree with the statement that says we are ALWAYS to take a stand of mercy ...

Yes ... that is clear in the scriptures when redemption was the outcome ... I mean - and I say this with trepidation ... is God angry enough to just oust entire nations without the purpose of redemption?

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 12:30pm | IP Logged

Yes Tina, but it is interesting we can never know for sure in this place who is saved and who isnt ... I mean Paul turned this guy over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh - so that his spirit might be saved ...

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 1:20pm | IP Logged

wow very interesting scripture Dave ...

If anyone knows this please -  the village of the Samaritans was a different city than Jerusalem correct?

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 1:33pm | IP Logged

Tina ~ Many are trying to jump across a chasm unto the thing a bit further ahead, when He is about doing that which will build the bridge that will take us to that place ...

well said ... the "goal" is to be like Him ...  ... but that goal is shrouded because often times we cant-wont see Him as He is ... a perfect harmony between authority and love ... we always separate the two - which leads to perceptional issues ... that is why in heaven the lion will lay down with the lamb.

Posted: 12/17/2009 at 1:41pm | IP Logged

amen