Posted: 12/26/2009 at 6:38pm | IP Logged

According to John Lawler's post, there was 'sposed to have been world changing events occurring.  Even if the plane had blown up, I do not believe that would have fit the description.

There have been a number of "predictions", aka 'Words' from God, that have not, yet come to pass.  Often, these 'Words' are appropriately worded so that there is left an "out", or a reason that it did not come to pass.  Usually, this is attributed to prayer, or not being given a specific time-able.

However, more consideration should be given as to the impact of posting a 'Word' from God... especially when the message "passed on" is such that if it does NOT come to pass, the person is labeled as a "False Prophet".  I have see 'disclaimers' in which excuses are made for the 'Word' not coming to pass.  The only disclaimers that I have seen in the Word of God is when intercessors stepped in, or when repentence is done.  However, in this day and time, we never usually hear about the "work" that resulted in the "Word" not coming to pass.

Todd Lackey had a 'Word', on Facebook, about the impact of false prophecies.  It would be a good thing to read.  From what I have been hearing and seeing... people will be well advised to sit down and shut up... unless the Word of God becomes like a fire in their bones, in which they could not stay... they have to speak.  There is a reckoning coming in 2010.  And yes, you can call that a 'Word' from God.

Posted: 12/26/2009 at 11:01pm | IP Logged

Whenever God speaks to me, it is usually just a single word or sentence.  I never hear whole paragraphs.  Sometimes I think God gives someone a word and then they expound on that word, with their own thoughts and emotions, then it is a tainted word.  It is never wise to set a date, I have never seen it honored by God.  Sometimes he reveals a season for an event but I have never heard of a specific date given and come to pass.

I still think we need to focus on Christ and listen for His leading.  Bad things are coming and we need to know Him and obey.  In the days ahead it will get real easy to be sidetracked by tragedy, which is why we need to be prepared, by sitting at His feet.

Posted: 12/27/2009 at 9:35am | IP Logged

Two things come to my mind...

1) John's humble delivery of such a word, his desire not to frighten, but his feeling of necessity to be obedient.

National News

Nigerian charged in airline incident; policy review under way

Posted on December 27, 2009 at 8:30 AM

DETROIT (AP) — Passenger screening has been tightened and airline security strategy questioned in the wake of a traveler's Christmas Day attempt to blow up a Northwest Airlines flight bound for Detroit.

Amid an intensifying U.S. government inquiry that reaches to the White House, authorities charged a 23-year-old Nigerian man with trying to destroy an airliner. This happened just a month after the father of the man, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (OO'-mahr fah-ROOK' ahb-DOOL'-moo-TAH'-lahb), warned U.S. officials of concerns about his son's religious beliefs.

Airports around the world are increasing security, and passengers have had to contend with extra pat-downs before boarding. In many instances, passengers coming in from overseas are also being instructed to remain in their seats, without blankets or pillows, for the last hour of a flight.

Meantime, officials who described White House-level discussions on grounds of anonymity said aides to President Barack Obama are taking a hard look at how terror watch-lists are used.

This policy review came as the Justice Department in Washington filed papers charging that Abdulmutallab willfully attempted to destroy or wreck an aircraft; and that he placed a destructive device in the plane.

Posted: 12/27/2009 at 3:58pm | IP Logged

here is the link to the original:

Disacter is coming to America!!!

i do pray that the entire thread will be read through and not only what John shared. i also pray that even as Lyn shared in this post, we see and hear and therfore choose to walk..in the more excellent way, empowered, Divinely expressed of His Spirit.

we do have need of Holy Spirit in and through one another. it is a body, having come into union in Spirit that manifests the Son,Who manifests the Father. it is a body in union/oneness of Spirit(whether local, national, global) that manifests the Kingdom/Governing of our Father. " a body You have prepared for Me" and it is the union/oneness/governing/kingdom in Spirit of which the many membered body demonstrates in power.. Jesus, the Great Apostle, Prophet, Shepherd, Evangelist, Teacher. this body is raised up, resurrected in newness of Life, overcoming sin and death, the kingdom of darkness and making an open display of His Victory unto the principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickeness in high places. it is a Love that surpasses their comprehension and had they known how and through Whom/whom their defeat would be displayed..they would not have crucified Him. LOL Glory to God!

blessings all,

Posted: 12/27/2009 at 4:24pm | IP Logged

what is of more value at this very moment Mj, re this post? and i'll go ahead and answer that for you...it's your brother.

i think we would do well not to compare ourselves among ourselves, that goes for nation among nations..that is `of the world' thinking that produces flesh and blood war. we would do well to examine ourselves, judge ourselves in Light of His Kingdom and in the Light of His Kingdom..walk.

Posted: 12/27/2009 at 4:28pm | IP Logged

GOD IS LOVE

We are called to love each other... because we are sisters and brothers....

((((((((M.J))))))))

Posted: 12/27/2009 at 6:02pm | IP Logged

[QUOTE=MJ Harris] There are more than one person who need to do a little self-examination as well, Kathy, not just me, some people are very quick with their tongues and say things in a most "unloving" fashion. agree and so said `we' which would include me, to examine and judge ourselves in the Light of His Kingdom and in the Light of His Kingdom..walk.

But at the same time let's not dismiss truth as being 'unloving' and thereby deny it's effect.

My opinions are as valid as any one else's on this forum. Not EVERY word spoken by EVERY person is ALWAYS of God even the ones that think they are. fully agree [/QUOTE]  my response in red *Kathy : )

usually when `something' frustrates us, or agitates, or we take in offense by, and we then defend..it is because it is that which is within our own heart and Holy Spirit is revealing it.  He reveals, always for the purpose of healing, making whole..lifting up and into His Life.

personally, there was no quickening of Spirit within my own spirit re the original word. but above that is, my heart is for and toward John, who is dearly beloved of our Father. and above that is my heart is for and toward my Husband. i have not said or done according to His thoughts, His ways and thankfully, everso thankFULL, He sees beyond and hears and meets the desire of my heart. and that desire is Him and His Kingdom.

the riches of Christ's Love abound for each and all here!

Posted: 12/27/2009 at 7:11pm | IP Logged

want to share this too Mj, so there not be a distinction made or something being made out of something i am not saying.. hah! can you follow how i worded that?

my heart is for and toward you too, dearly beloved of our Father : )

woohooooo! i'm reminded of and singing a song that goes like this..it's the Kingdom of heaven, the Kingdom of God Highway into New Jerusalem..here and now..let's go! : )

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 3:24am | IP Logged

a righteous approach in discussing things is pleasing to Father..don't you think MJ?  fully agree there is something far greater and that is His Kingdom, which is very much relational. right-relating, right-relationship manifesting peace and joy in Spirit..not discussing in way that brings shame or condemnation or that makes one who may have missed it, feel unaccepted.

as far as the word that was given that said,“I am bringing a disaster upon this land on Christmas day that will shake this nation to its very foundation”.  did that happen this past Christmas day? no

was there anything spoken within the word that said it could be averted? no

 someone asked if it were this Christmas year or another year(something along that line) and was answered, "To be honest with you I really don't know but I do believe the Lord was speaking about this coming Christmas"

i think there has been a great misconception of the New Covenant prophet's function in the body verses the Old Covenant prophet, where there was no body of Christ. there is so much `out there' that really still yet feeds into the misconception of function.

Larry Denton has some articles on here MJ you can look into. some are lengthy but well worth the read.

blessings,

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 4:38am | IP Logged

i'll be gone for awhile but i have a question and it may be i am misunderstanding this..hence the question lol

what about the 400yrs. as was told to Moses and the 70years prophesied by Jeremiah? is that what is meant by times and seasons?

i have to say, this has been the best Christmas i have had and it has nothing to do with stuff or the commerical celebration of and everything to do with the revelation of Christ Jesus and His Kingdom. i also saw portion of Kim Clement and he made mention of the 28th day of Dec. when he did, my spirit leaped and i said, okay! already this morning, the very thing that was a no way in the natural..came through!

but in that too, i know that as we seek first His Kingdom and righteousness all these things will be added..which i put Him into remembrance of : )

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 6:56am | IP Logged

MJ, I think your postings make a lot of sense. Don't be offended when someone comes in with a posting that is sharp and hard hearted. In that posting it is evident to the readers where this person's heart is. You're not going to change a lot of folks' minds on the authenticity of the "prophetic word." We've done this bunches of times. Someone posts something that doesn't happen or really doesn't seem right. Someone raises a question or states that they don't think the "word" is necessarily valid. Lots of back and forth postings. Sometimes the original poster doesn't even address question(s). And nothing is really resolved because everyone needs to be kind, which is okay but I think this kind of activity gives the prophetic arena a bad name because it is all over the place and anyone can say "thus sayeth the Lord" and we have to agree because to do otherwise would be unkind and then we all get horribly jaded because we don't know who to believe and some folks get away with some squirrely stuff. And then you have some folks that want to use only their brains and some that want to do a blend of God's spirit and their brain and then some that want to be totally "spirit." During the Lakeland deal, there were many folks that thought it was true and authentic. And, then, there were some folks that thought it was not true and they got butchered by the pro-Lakeland folks. Maybe it started true, but from my experience, which was early May, it was not true. I was there and it was not good. I was stunned how many folks were buying into it and it seemed so apparent that it was a lot of show and manipulation. (Watch the firestorm these sentences make.)

Well, I've said a lot. Don't mean to offend anyone. Just help this dear sister get a bead on how OH works. In the beginning it takes some tough skin not to bail on OH if you're going to post. There are good folks here. You'll find some posters you find authentic and worthwhile. Some posters that feel compelled to post a lot and you'll get used to them. And then you'll find the posters that speak truth and need to be paid attention to. I'd like to make a huge suggestion. Read Ron's Kingdom Growth Guides. They are most excellent. I actually think they should be our standard and it should be understood that we use them as our basis. You can tell who has read them and who has not. I'm reading them for the second time and there is so much meat in them. For sure, you want to read Ron's offerings because he's the Papa in the House and we highly regard him. And Kathy Bippus is another one to be honored and highly regarded. Lynn Sweeney comes with beautiful pictures and poems. I was just thinking that she would be like the Holy Spirit in "The Shack." All shimmery.

Welcome aboard, darlin'! I like what you posted and I don't think you are arrogant. You sound like a true intercessor with a proven track record. Don't be deterred. We need you at the table. A table where we often have vigorous conversations. On that point, you will find some that like vigorous debate and others that get nervous when folks debate because they feel that it is unkind. I believe God stuff can be wonderfully spiritual and, at the same time, very cerebral because God is many faceted and challenges us in many arenas. Just ask the folks that are into God and quantum physics!

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 8:15am | IP Logged

This is a portion of another thread. Just feel it good to consider the depth of the reality of speaking the words of Christ from a vessel empty of self-needs and desires. Speaking in strength to challenge or speaking to comfort both can be love of God or both can be from another source involving self. Only a vessel empty of self can be completely filled with Christ.

2010 Two Minutes Till Twelve - Part 2

Falling upon the rock and being broken is part of the process of preparation to flow as one with Christ Jesus in the Spirit. Many are in the later stages of preparation to move into the reality of function of speaking forth what is seen and heard in the Spirit and seeing it formed into the earth. Every word clearly heard and spoken forth by the voice of God in His people will change that to which it speaks.

Words from God are loaded with quick and sure impact to transform and create the kingdom from heaven into the natural realm in this world. This is not for someone else. This is for you and every redeemed child of God. The Christ in you is the Spirit of Prophesy with power to speak from heaven words with consequence into brothers and sisters and into the world. This is for everyone and not just some big name prophet or apostle. The power of rivers of living water is from within you who have fallen upon the rock and are broken and empty of self and refilled with the Spirit of God.

God is speaking LIFE to His people and to His world. It is you to whom He is speaking and it is you who are to prophesy life to yourself and to all around you who are searching for answers. The world and its governments have no answers. Christ in you has the words of life to fill the hearts of the searchers – words that explode in encouragement strengthening and empowering people to get out of themselves and their limitations and into the omnipotent life of Christ.

Don’t go anywhere – don’t do or say anything until you see or hear by the Spirit, the vision or word of what God is doing. Stop all ministering from the natural mind and soul and seek into the Spirit until the picture or understanding of what God is saying and doing comes into your heart. Learn to move and walk by the Spirit in all matters at all times. This is the way of God for all His world changers.

The world situation is not hopeless. The power to right every wrong and transform the world and its people is in the presence of Christ within His people and that means you and me. Nothing else can fix our lives, our cities and our nations.

Falling on the rock is silencing the babble of foolish speaking coming from the fear and pride of man. The rock crushing to powder all that will not fall on the rock will dissolve all that lifts itself against the word of God. Thus, clearing the land for the word of life and truth to fill the earth with the way of heaven come to earth. It is you who are called by His name and filled with His living Spirit for whom the world is languishing and longing waiting for words of life from God to flow from your mouth. The people around you and across the world are waiting for the river of life from Christ in you the hope of glory.

It is two minutes till twelve will you speak life now?   

Ron

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 9:31am | IP Logged

Daily Blood Coverings Needed, at least in my world. Sadly enough so... Thank You Lord for your Warning to step up the prayers of agreement IN  You...

Let us Be More Desparate for YOU... Not to be right, and another Wrong, but to Fulfill YOUR Calling each of us has.

Great is Your Faithfulness... Help Me to Remember this, let us Hunger More for YOU. All else is in Vain really. 

El Shaddai ... that we will Have a Heart not of stone. Soften our Hearts    Lord,  to be Pliable for YOUR touch and absorbtion...! 

Let us be the Meek that Inherit the Earth. Ya know what I mean Lord may someone else get it too I pray! Humbled by Your Presence.

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 1:06pm | IP Logged

MJ, yes, it was Abraham i was referring to and making covenant with. thanks for your input! also in sharing of Father meeting a no way need on this day, the 28th..i wasn't looking for a prophetic word concerning. but when the 28th was said, there was a quickening in my spirit, which also happened to be a `deadline' day. it was also nothing i spoke of with anyone, but those here knew about and so is a testimony of resting in Father's Love, Who knows what you have need of.

Leslie, i agree there is quite a bit of misperception in defining a prophetic word..which all may do and yes, it has been discussed several times throughout the years.  some words are really just for us, whether to intercede or to search the matter out. OH is a safe place where we can come and share, without fear, and growing, maturing in such matters as being discussed... prophecy. when coming to OH, the whole of is re the gospel of the Kingdom of God which Jesus preached, taught and demonstrated. for many of us, the way has been paved through the years and the giving of to proclaiming the Good News of Christ Jesus and His Kingdom. so we recognize, know them and honor those who have labored and labor among us. and honestly, we do not know the full extent of the cost and sufferings, persecution etc. but have been counted as nothing for His Love sake, for the sake of the gospel. it is these who truly are the least esteemed..not speaking of those who may be seen today in proclaiming themselves to be `apostles' and are not. but without even knowing the full extent, you can hear the `bearing about in the body the marks'...without it ever being spoken of. and what i mean by that is, there is a brokenness manifesting Christ.

much Love,

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 1:31pm | IP Logged

Please, Save me the Kim Clements false Prophet comments I am NOT responding to them... I believe who I want, You have the Free will to do the same and pass by my post. With His Love...Thanks

http://www.kimclement.com/ 

This part in the photo is in the Streaming Video only (from home page go to Watch KCTV http://kimclement.tv/?ref=view_all&i=27  under go to the date 11/21/09 ( You can Fwd to 29:00 min into the counter on the left of the screen to the Exact Words in the Picture is at 31:45 on counter through 34 :00 or so...) and watch for yourselves if you so Choose to... If You've felt the Anointing of God before then ya will know how I felt when I watched this meeting. Spirit all over it for Me atleast.

It's Not Fully yet transcribed I guess?   I watched it and Heard the Below prophecied that day in Detroit, I even posted it somewhere back then. How do I remember I caught flack then over it then... Sorry I have to Post what I am Convicted to Post...

============================================================ ===================

Prophecy from 11/21/09 link> http://kimclementvault.com/home.asp 

11/21/2009

From Detroit, MI -  as Given to Kim Clement by the Spirit... You Discern as always... My Highlights in Blue..

November 21, 2009 - Detroit, MI This nation will not remain under the power of the prince of Persia.  God is releasing the new source of energy and it shall come, it shall appear, it shall manifest in 2010, says the Spirit of God! The Spirit of God says do not think this strange that this presence has come amongst my people for this shall be a regular attendance.  All over the United States of America angels have been beckoned, angels have been beckoned by the warriors that have prayed and praised and the people that have sacrificed.  The soil is prepared.  You have plowed and the hard soil is finally broken open.  God says the angel of the Lord shall come to this nation and visit the churches, visit my church.  Do not think it strange tonight that this prophet has spoken it.  Now God says in the midst of you angels are warring over you.  I’m hearing these words that are coming out of this place that has opened up and I cannot say them.  We are retarded in our speech and we are unqualified because we have become repetitious and now God is saying a brand new language is being given to his people.  A brand new language is going to be given so that they will have tongues of fire and they will speak a language that is relevant to this generation.  A relevancy is coming by the tongues of the preachers, on the tongues of the people, the witness of God.

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 4:16pm | IP Logged

Kathy, I'm not sure what your posting to me meant. Have you been hanging out with Larry Denton? You're starting to sound heavy duty like he sounds and that's not a bad thing. It's just that sometimes I get lost in his writings.

I think this has gotten pretty ugly. MJ has the right to say whatever she wants and I don't think she's manipulating the conversation. I actually think she's asking some good questions. Where is John and perhaps he would like to contribute to this conversation. That would be a good thing.

Tina, God is Abba and Ron can be our Papa in the house. If you feel uncomfortable with that statement, then don't make it your own. Every house has a leader/father and I consider Ron to be the "father" in this Internet house. A loving and gentle father.

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 5:55pm | IP Logged

this explains the detroit part (of the incident), now still waiting to find explanation  for the nigerian part (no hurry though)

how did you like the red jacket the mentally retarded person wore that attacked the paupe? In our news reading yesterday one line specifically read the ´hypothesis would probably be liberty´.

Today again I met with my MD. Before the second courtroommeeting, my MD (psychiatrist in training) and my psychiatrist concluded there were two hypotheses, either I had a kind of development disorder, or it was a psychiatric disorder. Meanwhile, its a while ago this meeting took place, i´ve been to the psychologist, and she did some testing and concluded no autistic disorder, nor development disorder are manifest. As to the second hypothesis, the psychiatric disorder, schyzophrenia, after three days I ´ordered´ my cello with me, and within a month I´d written an official complaint to the medical juridicial committee. One of the main negative symptoms (and especially negative symptoms tend to be dominant in the first month of the psychosis) is that a person tends to be very passive.

you are probably all aware another asset for this psychiatric disorder can be that you seem to see yourself identified in the news. Well, this is for prophetic people normal isn´t? Having read through some posts, I saw an ´explanation´ for the storms in Swiss on x/masday, thought we know the lord reigns, but by his posting through monica and our acknowledgment of the lord leading and guiding us through his spirit to a new era, which may lead to the reigning with christ, as in forthspeaking life into our circumstances and environments, or the return of christ, either two options very appealing. May the lord bless you all richly! (prayers for my mom, and prayers in general are still welcome). Bless the Lord. 

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 6:04pm | IP Logged

wow Pieter,

 duh... I had forgotten the plane landed there. Been a hectic few days...

Thanks Pieter for that heads up... I missed the obvious.

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 6:28pm | IP Logged

Ya know God didnt speak to Moses in dark sayings (symbols ect.) but face to face - even apparently. Spot on ALL THE TIME.

That sort of relationship would be a very good thing to desire for all of us.

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 6:29pm | IP Logged

Stehpen,

Sorry to see ya go... Yeah I get pretty uppity at the debates etc and then the superiority issues etc. Since I just lost the original thought, I will just say... Yes, we are all learning and are from many backgrounds and growth etc.

If I gave you my story blah blah ya might get a clue where I come from, but since I am not looking back I will let that 1 rest for now.

Yes, I get ticked easy and jump when I should shut up, still working on that one, but If God told ya to bail out then so be it. This is not a save all cite it is a tid bit for God to speak and If or How or NOT depends on what God is doing in your life. I have no feeling in the spirit leading in what I am saying, so it is coming from self...

I have appreciated some things ya said, though ya were off on a few, but hey... I have to take the plank out of my own eye and pray to be graceful in speach and try not stumble or hurt in speech, as to drive a hungering soul away. ( I am pretty point blank not much sugar coating here usually)  

So if I have gotten testy, cannot remember with you I do appologise. Be it well with you guy and I pray for your Faith and a touch from Him releases any hurt you maybe feeling. Believe me, at times in posts, I'd like to have had the responder in person having the nerve to tell me my head was well... you know... seeing poop. I'd prolly not have been to gracious.

Learning to Let things GO, and Pray God reveals personally and Bind the religous spirit, of which I am sure I have several doctrinal issues too.

Just remember Stephen... not all know as much as they think they do, and what many of us think we know do we really... Hence we just have to run to God and pray for His touch on the matter.

Rambling... going now. Keep fighting for your clarity doll, but let go of the timewasting battles, your jumping in will not change people only God can...Pray for them since we battle not against flesh and blood, but against what.... I know ya know. Ya were wrong and I many times are too in speech, do to not having the ability to speak without getting testy over an issue close to my heart, and comes accross wrong in my frustration.

Be Blessed either way guy... He will fight for you, but ya do have to be careful not to quench the Spirit yourself, forget the other guys we are held accountable for ourselves and stumbling others. That can be scary believe me... Touch Not God's anointed is a big one! Take what I say with a grain of SALT because this is my flesh talking the spirit is not leading me that I can feel right now.

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 6:51pm | IP Logged

lol Leslie..no i haven't heard from Larry in awhile. He sent me an email a few months ago of a video with Frank Viola. it was really good! and yeah, i miss Larry! when is the last time you spoke with him? yep, Larry's writing's weren't the easiest to read through..but i just got it, i got what he was saying and that by Holy Spirit : )

i was saying..all may prophesy and yes there has been alot of misperceptions re prophecy and that these things have been discussed on OH a number of times throughout the years. i then was really relaying re the gift of an apostle such as Ron..recognizing, knowing those who labor among us, the labor of his Love and giving honour due to whom it is is due.

how's that? better explanation? : )

Stephen, i tried emailing you last evening, but the email returned to me with a failed notice. i don't know if you have a block on your email address or what. i was cleaning up the Fresh Bread available post and accidently deleted your response and asked you to please repost it. i still have the returned email. if you'll email me, i'll resend it to you..my email addy is below my signature.

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 8:35pm | IP Logged

Kathy, I spoke with Larry this weekend. He and Bonnie got to do some traveling and visiting with family during December. His computer has been down and he hasn't been emailing. They are now home and doing well although it's cold in Lubbock. (I sent some microplush blankets to keep the family warm.) If you don't have a microplush blanket, check them out at Walmart, Marshall's or TJ Maxx. They are so nice!

Stephen, thanks for the affirmation. Did you see Kathy's posting about accidently deleting the Fresh Bread posting? I hope you join in Ron's 2010 adventure into more of God and less of us.

Stephen

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 8:51pm | IP Logged

Received by Jeffrey ~ “As you meditate on My Word, you will begin to see My Face clearer and clearer. You will begin to look more and more like Me. For the pure in heart will see God (Matt 5:8). My Spirit will use My Word to take you from Glory to Glory as it works in you to remove the earthly and replace it with the Heavenly."

"For the word of God is quick and powerful sharper then any two edged sword peircing ... peircing ... even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, the joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and the INTENTS of the heart  ..."

Allow us to be peirced by your concern Lord ... allow us to distinguish the difference between our own wishes, the echoes of our own soul - so that we may clearly hear you ...

Amen

Posted: 12/28/2009 at 9:05pm | IP Logged

Received by Jeffrey ~ " Just as Stephen's face shined with My Glory as He saw Me in Heaven, so shall My People's faces also shine with My Glory as they behold Me in Heaven."

Hmmmm ... Stephen ... his face shinning, therefore BEING THERE  -  very interesting, a proximity ... 

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 4:50am | IP Logged

thanks for sharing that with me Leslie,

Vince, Jeffrey..yesss!

 that is the desire, i believe, of each one here...to be full of His Divine Expression. in just thinking upon the humility of Jesus, Who revealed Father..we see Love that far surpasses anything. a Love that empties and emptied and eternally is emptied..as it is His Nature to Give of Himself. Love is made known in deed and in truth(unconcealed). it is transparent. nothing hidden..no hidden motive, no agenda of its own, not even a shadow of darkness but Pure Holy Light. the whole of Jesus's life demonstrated obedience to Father..Who from before the foundation of the world, was in Father. and Father foreordained to demonstrate His Great Love in the giving of His Son and the Son giving of Himself to the will of Father. What a blessed, glorious union! and to whom did He make an open display to, of His Love and triumphed over them in it? and who is now to make His triumphant open display to? who has He chosen to do so?

eph.3:8-21

 Glory to God!

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 6:40am | IP Logged

Hasn´t there been this huge storm then? (apart from the flight?)

It was on the internet to be read, that a huge storm passed through the middle of the States on the 25th of December, causing 19 deaths. It was up from the Canadian border, down to the Southern Texas and from Colorado to Illinois.

So both Fawler as Clement seem to be having had a point

http://www.nd.nl/artikelen/2009/december/25/kolossale-storm- trekt-over-midden-van-vs

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 9:30am | IP Logged

My Highlights in Red... Ouch Touche' Lord! 

=============================================

Sandy Warner   Dec 29 2009 12:00AM   

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 11:11am | IP Logged

@ Joan,

what does your reply have to do with the topic?? I seem to be missing why no-one is rejoicing. Is this a miracle or not? For me, to me, these kind of miracles fuel my faith. Of course I would rather see people come to christ, but to me it seems the love of many in the western church has grown cold. I think it is therefore useful as the Lord gives us a hand, as a Father chastens his son, out of love. Please, be so kind to respond.  

To Gene,

If i´m not mistaken, you seem to be argueing the prediction of Clement has nothing to do with the severe storm since it started before Christmas. Isn´t this great, or is this according to some people not according the love of christ?

And shouldn´t we be rejoicing, that apparently Laywer senior has a keen ear during his silent times?

I tried to find some damage pictures (of the storm), but that didn´t work out. God bless to you all.

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 2:16pm | IP Logged

This horse has been whipped enough. However, I am in agreement with Gene in that prophesy that tags exact dates should be received with much caution. I posted the following comment in the "2012" post in November:

"The article that I posted was to bring caution when we attempt to prophesy using exact dates or time-lines. This, I believe, needs to be heeded as the days ahead unfold. I am already beginning to see such prophesies and fear that many good-hearted and God-loving folks will be crucified if they are perceived as being wrong or "missing it!" The church has had a tendancy to crucify its own...maybe, better days are ahead as my friend Raymond stated."

Why do we require an exact date? Is an "exact date" the same around the world? I certainly do not want to tell somebody how they should structure a prophesy! However, we can save ourselves potential hurt and rejection by simply refraining from such risks as adding exact dates...Especially global events that speak of natural and random disasters. (Use wisdom!)

Prophecy spoken or written in the area of "blessing" is an entirely differerent matter. A prophecy of a particular blessing may or may not come to pass.  There is no responsibility that can be directed toward the giver of a prophecy if such a word does not come to pass. In other words, all of the children of Israel were prophesied a promised land for them and their children. However we know that only two (2) people partook or experienced this prophesy. Is Moses a false prophet to the other million or so people? Of course not. Prophetic utterances of blessing usually have "personal accountability"  for the word to reach fruition.

With that said, could the same "personal accountability" hold true for prophecies of natural/global disasters or events? Maybe, but unlikely in my opinion and the reason why I posted what was stated. Our greatest gift to the body of Christ would be that corporate body would begin to hear, see, taste, smell, and touch the kingdom of God for themselves!  If we're put out of business...Then we have accomplished our mission! LOL!

danny

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 3:04pm | IP Logged

Okay, maybe there´s a reason for extra precaution or carefulness if a date is tagged. But if it results in an effect, why not celebrate the holyness of the Lord, for I see no funpart regarding this.

What I do object is people praying against earthquakes. At a certain website thats not this one (otherwise I would have never cared to join), they pray all the way around against earthquakes. Please mention a scriptureverse?

In the contrary, this Summer I spoke so at my neighbor, that if i jumped an earthquake would occur. The next day there was a double earthquake. I spoke this because I heard the ´soft inner voice´ say so. It said ´do you know as i jump sometimes earthquakes occur´. I think this happened after I prayed for wisdom for a response. It didn´t even give me a good feeling or so, why on earth should it give a good feeling?

The red jacketthing of the lady with the pope, who lost her mind, could be interpreted as for example, perhaps you have also experienced this, but I always saw it as a sign of Holy Spirit (why do some people miss out -the-, I don´t like it..) if a small child or baby came towards you during a service, or towards others. Its for me like a dove on a person. (a bit offtopic here).

But I think if you´re not sure a word is from the Lord you should add so. Mister Faywler did not do this, because he heard the word in faith in delivered it in faith and it was ´crowned´, with truth in my opinion.

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 3:36pm | IP Logged

Not all prophecy has to be about one event, most of them are directives for the body, instruction to reveal what to do next and why ... 

but for the ones that are - either it comes true or it dosent - in order for it to be verified there has to be a date attached - or at the very least something like "A bowl of cottage cheese the size of Rhode Island will fall out of sky in the year 2010 !!!"

I mean even if something so extra-ordinary was predicted to come to pass within a particular year it would still be beyond mere coincidence to get it right ...  

But if I say ... ya know eventually something really bad is gonna happen ...

If God wants to warn a nation, or confirm to you that it was He who spoke to you of something it would'nt do much good to be nebulous about the where's and when's  ...

For instance Paul Cain would say, "I'm coming to a particular area and the day before I get there, there will be an earthquake or flood to announce my arrival ... " and there was

... or John Paul Jackson having a vision of the Challenger Space Shuttle blowing up and drew it out exactly ... or in your own personal lives God saying to you - avoid this place today, or go another way, or you have a dream that comes true - it may not be for an entire nation (yet) but it is way beyond the realm of possibility.

it is an incredible miracle - it is a gift of God.

But above all remember - these are just little gifts really - the Real Gift - and where these other gifts come from

is relationship with Him ...

Blessings,

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 4:18pm | IP Logged

Its great Michele, great testimony. An example of things that do not happen very frquently, but if you know, you just know.

I´ve never had, experienced soch visions, but I´m sure I will.

As to the tagging to prophesies, as the Lord givs clear instructions, why not obey and write them down. But then it comes down to the issue whether people are able to distinguish false from real. I guess also a kind of reputation could help. And perhaps some leveling, like brother danny added. Some prophecy is perhaps a bit more unclear, or a bit more from the flesh (wouldn´t it be great if the Lord told me now this and that will collapse).

But why not share the joy if something is clearly a reason to rejoice. I think John sr. can be encouraged to receive much more in the days to come.

°°for myself, the lord showed himself in a way I knew i could just speak, because the words would axe through or not, but those mature enough would know. I also cherrypicked words from others, I knew were from the Lord, and the text of Joel, each one continues his or her own route. Now it is still unclear to me what the future will be like (as in prophetic picture). But I know the Lord can use words or impressions in different ways, even misunderstandings. But they must be addressed of course.

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 4:52pm | IP Logged

Maybe we need a greater understanding in how God created "time."  Is time really exact?  No, it is not. Is it the same day all over the entire world? No. God created "time" as relavistic and is not static.  This is reason why we do not see exact dates in the Bible....Only "time frames" are prophetically presented.  Why should we attempt to put such pressure upon ourselves without a clear precedent?  The bible in and of itself is of little value unless revealed by Holy Spirit. I certainly do not want to infringe upon what another hears from God unless it's heretical. But, we can use the scriptures as a blueprint and where our prophetic focus really needs to be.

Genuine prophecy will reveal the heart of God in harmony with His kingdom. We must ask ourselves, "What is the heart of God - prophetically." Is it natural disasters? Why do you believe this? Is it mass killings due to judgment? Why do you believe this? Is it continual violence and support of mankind's wars? Why do you believe this?

If you have recieved the revelation of the kingdom and understand the heart of God toward it...All of the above are in some form of conflict of what I see and hear God doing in the earth in this season of "time."  The building of His kingdom on earth as it is in heaven is not destroying everything via natural violence or divine wrath. It is the Spirit of God moving through surrendered vessels to change the world around them.  Is it too late for this?  God's justice will prevail at His appointed time. Not when we say it will. When we touch and declare prophesy of judgment - we are playing with fire!

I'll come out say this now... As a corporate prophetic voice, we need to step back and evaluate the value of our passions and vision. Is what we proclaim "really" in alignment with the Spirit?  Our lust and penchant for judgment boarders on lunacy and only reflects a wounded heart that has been previously rejected. The prophetically gifted but yet, wounded soul, will always prophesy to one's self the conditions of their own heart. It's kinda like a child that throws a toy across the room if it doesn't work right. It's alot easier to act in violence and frustration  than it is to think and rebuild the toy to be of value...dk

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 4:55pm | IP Logged

well LOL Vince..  "A bowl of cottage cheese the size of Rhode Island will fall out of sky in the year 2010 !!!"  oh, i hope you all have a sense of humor...i know our Daddy does : )

but let's imagine for a moment, we are all sitting in a familyroom together. we are face to face..we see the Love in each one's eyes, we hear the sound of each one's voice. we have come gathered together in union of Spirit and Holy Spirit testifies of a coming adversity. He has done so collectively and so collectively we seek His Mind in the matter. the body waits upon Him collectively and then responds as He reveals the whatsoever's of the matter. It is more of a `what would You have us do?' We then act according to whatsoever He speaks..collectively.

 ~there is no `guesstimation' but knowing.

alot of good has come from within this thread and am remembering..a "Body You have prepared for Me" it is not a one man show..but a corporate One New Man ..making an open display to the principalities and rulers of the darkness of this world, wickedness in high places..His Triumph over them!..let's go! : ) Arise shine for your Light is come and the glory of the Lord is risen upon you........

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 5:21pm | IP Logged

amen Danny! excellent!..oooooo Daniel : )

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 5:37pm | IP Logged

Danny ~ "I'll come out say this now... As a corporate prophetic voice, we need to step back and evaluate the value of our passions and vision. Is what we proclaim "really" in alignment with the Spirit?  Our lust and penchant for judgment boarders on lunacy and only reflects a wounded heart that has been previously rejected. The prophetically gifted but yet, wounded soul, will always prophesy to one's self the conditions of their own heart. It's kinda like a child that throws a toy across the room if it doesn't work right. It's alot easier to act in violence and frustration  than it is to think and rebuild the toy to be of value..."

amen.

Posted: 12/29/2009 at 7:40pm | IP Logged

 Holy Spirit within us collectively is able to judge and discern whether a prophecy be true. it is not the person who is given it that is judged but the word. was it/is it Spirit breathed or of the soul? a bigger picture is : Christ in you(collectively) the hope(full expectation) of glory. the only way to discern or judge a word whether it be of God or not..regardless of whether the individual may say it is..is by Holy Spirit. no other way...none. we can't rationalize it, we can't reason it out, as in using the soul to determine..it only comes from being in union with Spirit. the same as in bringing a pure word of the Lord..comes only from being in union with Spirit.

for to long there has been a perpetuating of `individualism' or and independent spirit. His Kingdom removes that.

there is very much a purifying of the prophetic stream..and i think that is the title of one of Loren Sandfords books lol

the purifying comes in the union/oneness with Spirit in the body of Christ..and it is a pure union of Love. it is not about my will, or my word, or me me me..it's all about manifesting the Son of God manifesting Father in and through the church..the assembly, the gathered together called out ones. and i'm not going into that..but yeah, it can be a gathering of two or three..but whether it be two or three or one hundred or more..it must be a gathering in one/One in Spirit. there just is no other way..nunya : )

re the word being discussed..was said, "“I am bringing a disaster upon this land on Christmas day that will shake this nation to its very foundation”

did a disaster take place, this now past Christmas day, that shook the nation to its very foundation? we're then left with..the history of its foundation? the principles of the nation? what foundation and what disaster? so just in sharing this..it is a very vague word that leaves even His own children playing guessing games. hide and seek..maybe : )  ..guessing games? no

much Love all,

Posted: 12/30/2009 at 2:26am | IP Logged

I will mention it again here, having suggested it on a couple of other threads in the run-up to Christmas... what does Christmas Day represent in the spiritual?  Stop thinking literal for a moment and think spiritually.  What does Christmas Day represent?  The appearing of Christ?  The appearing of God incarnate/in the flesh?  Then, let's consider what "this land" or "this nation" represents in the spiritual.  Doesn't the earth or land represent the flesh symbolically?  So then, wouldn't the appearing of Christ in us be disastrous to our flesh shaking its very foundations?  Remember the book of Revelation is written in symbolic form... it is not literal... maybe this prophecy is the same... symbolic not literal.

Food for thought?

Love, Mandy

Posted: 12/30/2009 at 3:40am | IP Logged

i think that's excellent food for thought Mandy! and actually did think of that while sharing of the `independent spirit' and/or `individualism' which is very much the American way ..i know i've been being blasted since the month of Nov. the revealing of the depth of the `man of sin'..the adamic nature..woah the root runs deep my friend. much deeper than realize until revealed and he must be revealed and that by Holy Spirit. so yeah, excellent!

do i think that is what the intention of this particular word meant..no, but can it be applicable to..yes! the adamic nature..self, which is all about `me, myself and I.'  Only by Holy Spirit revealing and our being willing to see anti-Christ within the `me', the soul life, the carnal, fleshly life..is he removed. It is easy to see `him' in others, but refuses or denies to see it in `me.' ... pointing the finger at others and denying the existence of within ones own person/soul. the epitomy of religiousity...he hides behind and even naming being of `Holy' Spirit and is not! he even proclaims against the religious spirit and he also  proclaims being `unreligious' ..he's a subtle schemer, even as depicted by Jacob. But Holy Spirit is revealing, exposing the `man of sin' to all who have ears to hear for `themself' and who will lay hold of(adhere to) Christ Jesus and His Kingdom/Governing and not let go until..change!  no longer then does he have dominion over, because he has been crucified with Christ and Christ Jesus is given His rightful place..He Rules, He Reigns!
woohooo! what a journey!!

much Love Mandy!

Posted: 12/30/2009 at 4:01am | IP Logged

Quote Kathy Bippus: ´woohooo! what a journey!!´

Thanks for the rejoicing Kathy 

I can see your point in the ´to its very foundations´-part and I can also see Mandy´s adding to it, her clarification. Somehow to its very foundation sounds more as a enormous disaster, while you are used to hurricanes and the storm must have been relatively small.

Posted: 12/30/2009 at 4:14am | IP Logged

Oh yes, I am seeing how very deep this root is too! ... to the very foundations... and his scheming...

I think it's not until Christ is mature enough in us though that he (the anti-Christ) is revealed to us.  Thinking of the parable of the wheat and the tares.  Its not until the wheat comes to maturity that the tares become distinguishable in their maturity... ready to be burned up.

2 Thessalonians 2:7,8 Amp 

⁷For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only until he who restrains is taken out of the way.   ⁸And then the lawless one (the antichrist) will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming.

Much love, Mandy

Posted: 12/30/2009 at 4:29am | IP Logged

I know that I have had dreams in the past and have interpreted them literally rather than spiritually, leading to confusion.  Everything we hear from God is interpreted through our current level of understanding.  It may well be that John Lawler has interpreted this word from a current level of literal understanding... which was not the Lord's intention?  I cannot answer for him though.  The actual words that John heard were: “I am bringing a disaster upon this land on Christmas day that will shake this nation to its very foundation”.  There was more included in the prophecy that John delivered... but these were the actual words heard from the Lord. 

Could it be that while in conversation with God over all the sin we see around us in our respective nations, that He would say I'm going to bring disaster on THIS nation???...meaning me, you, us???  in order for us to stop pointing the finger, as Kathy keeps saying, and look within.  A disaster upon our finger pointing ways???  A disaster upon this religious spirit that's roots go down to our very foundations???  Is this not what we are witnessing happening on this forum at the moment... the exposing of this religious spirit upon which disaster is here to shake it to its very foundations???

It may have been a personal word for John... and his foundations are being shaken right at this moment... so let's be considerate with each other, eh... we never know what devastation the Lord is working within each other's hearts.

I think Kriston's recent article on interpreting prophecy and dreams may well be helpful here although not specifically related:

http://archive.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=30204

Love Mandy

Posted: 12/30/2009 at 4:48am | IP Logged

I´ve reread the word, of John Lawler. If I am to scrutinize, I would say,

the person was moved by the Lord, and by his country (grieved). The sentence he begot, was after some ´conversation´ with the Lord, after talking through some prayerburden.

the person sincerely believes its a word from the Lord and so there´s a need to post it.

the last sentence, i believe he is trying to warns us to get right with him and the rest of the sentence, could suggest some fear. To me it would make more sense if it would be directed, perhaps, to nonbelievers, since I´ve come to conclude this forum (and its members) are pretty well-shaken?

I have to add to this that I myself invited in 2007 with the words of Jesus out of Luke 21, especially verse 34, people to bow their heads and pray, according to the ´famous´ part in Chronicles (if my people humble themselves).

I see nothing ´wrong´ in the message, since I believe (in accordance to Paul) every word of the Lord can be used to edify (teher are some scripture verses added). Comments on the message are welcome, this suggests humility.

I think as a body of Christ, son, daughter perhaps we need the warnings, but as a child we need not to worry.  

I´m not sure as a result of the forced take-into custody of the psychiatric hospital I feel still a burden anymore. I think its more going in the direction of the joy, together with fellow believers sharing the gospel and the good news. Past few years have been a struggle and still sometimes.

May the Lord bless and keep you!