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Jeffrey Stewart
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 10:34am
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"Rom 8:1 "There is NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus". There is NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN ME. My Father totally accepts Me. I sit at His right hand - that shows how much He accepts me. You are IN ME so He completely accepts you too! Do not allow condemnation to trouble you any longer Neither I nor your Father condemn you. We see you as Holy and dearly loved. You are free."
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The secret of great faith is being fully convinced of His great faithfulness to keep His Word.
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Gayle Getz
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 11:20am
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Amen...devil, i dont receive your condemning words about me anymore,,, and furthermore, you just remember Calvary devil,,,you want to talk to someone about me, GO TALK TO JESUS! YEAH GOD! \o/
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Shalom-nothing missing, nothing broken-Gayle
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james hill
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 11:28am
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I think many people take this scripture to an extreme. No condemnation simply means not being condemned.....it has nothing to do with feelings of being guilty bout something........or feeling the repercussions of poor choices........( BIG DIFFERENCE!) Feelings associated with sin in our lives can be healthy in that it pains us so much that we turn away from that sin "eventually".........
I do not think it is healthy to error and not be concerned at all about our actions.........or even grieved and shamed.........we need not live under the guilt so long as we are "turning away" from.............(fill in the blanks...)
but the "there, there little bear, it gonna be ok" mentality i feel is a tragic mistake....... How is it the we diminish God's standards or make "light" of them?????? accountability in the "religious" circles is as bad as in the world.......we do not have a free pass to sin and expect everything to be ok cause we are not condemned.....
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Jeffrey Stewart
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 12:42pm
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God went to extremes to give you a perfect relationship with Himself when He sent Jesus to die on the Cross for you. The Cross was a perfect work, because everything God does is perfect. So He perfectly accepts you, and sees you as Holy in His Sight, which has nothing to do with anything you do, but it has EVERYTHING to do with what He did.
Religion tries to encourage an Old Testament mentality in a New Testament people. The Lord is destroying every trace of religion in His Bride. This word is part of that.
Edited by Jeffrey Stewart on 04/14/2011 at 12:44pm
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Jeffrey Stewart
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 12:46pm
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We are AS HE SEES US. Not as we see ourselves. Not as others see us.
And certainly not as the enemy sees us. We ARE AS HE SEES US, and HE
SEES US AS HE SEES JESUS, because WE ARE IN CHRIST. He loves us as He
loves Jesus. He accepts us as He accepts Jesus. And His Faces shines on
us as it shines on Jesus. All because we are IN CHRIST. That is Grace.
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james hill
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 12:54pm
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........it doesn't make sense
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Jeffrey Stewart
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 1:26pm
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James, I lived under a sense of condemnation for years, so I know what you are talking about. I woke up one morning, and He showed me that the way we've been defining grace is all wrong. The Grace of God has everything to do about Jesus and nothing to do about us. The New Testament, new covenant, is actually between the Father and the Son, it has nothing to do with us, it can never be broken. The central part of it is that, when we believe, we cease to be IN ADAM, and are placed IN CHRIST. Adam is no longer in our family tree. God the Father is. We are moved from being in an earthly family, and placed into a heavenly family. He took WHO WE WERE and placed it in Jesus, who died on the Cross. And when Jesus rose from the dead, He recreated us, IN HIM. These things "do not" make sense, you are absolutely right  And when He seated Jesus in the Heavenly realms, He seated us there, too, according to Ephesians 2:6 "we HAVE BEEN seated WITH HIM in the Heavenly realms. He no longer sees us as "separate", but always "in Christ" from now on. It says in the Bible that we are "one spirit with the Lord". We are forever joined to Jesus, and actually are HIDDEN INSIDE HIM, according to the Bible.
Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Hidden means "not seen". So when God looks at us, He doesn't see us, but Jesus. We will never, ever be able to wrap our minds around it completely, either here or in Heaven millions of years from now. The incredible display of mercy and grace God exhibited by placing us WITHIN His dearly loved Son can never be grasped. Even in Heaven, it will leave us speechless. But it is so, He sees us exactly as He sees Him.
I read a book a few years back that might help you, its called "Sit, Walk, Stand" by Watchman Nee. It takes you through the Book of Ephesians and explains the IN ADAM, IN CHRIST concept very well.
Edited by Jeffrey Stewart on 04/14/2011 at 1:35pm
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Bill Evans
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 6:05pm
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Sit at his feet,Stand on the rock,walk in the spirit,and rest in His love.
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Bill Evans bspydr28@aol.com &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp;
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Pamela Susette
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 6:48pm
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Wow thank you Jesus for sitting us free. God keeps reminding me of this a lot that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus but it seems that men and even God's children like to throw up pass sins or imperfections yet God sees us as righteous.
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Michele Hay
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Posted: 04/14/2011 at 7:37pm
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James...there is a difference between a healthy 'conviction' of sin and what I think Jeffrey is saying. Yes...Holy Spirit convicts of us sin when needed if we will let Him. We learn to be sensative to Him...and not ignore His promptings that we need to ask forgiveness perhaps...or sometimes for Him to set us free from any bondages we realize we struggle with. But that is not the same as condemnation.
Have you ever made a mistake and you ask the Lord to forgive you sincerely in a whispered prayer...but the enemy keeps reminding you of it? The enemy is a liar. He likes people to either not repent (of course) or...to live a life of guilt and condemnation. But as our hearts get more and more open to understanding the gift and nature of God to us in Chirst...we fall less and less..for his lies. As Gayle said..."take it to the cross!"...meaning 'I am standing on the promises of God for me and the finished work of the cross for my salvation.' This is how our mind is renewed...by agreeing with His word. When the enemy troubles me...I 'hide' in Jesus...by being mindful of all of His love and sacrifice for me...and the finished work of the cross. I agree...with what God says...not the enemy. As we learn to do this...we are stronger in our faith and knowledge of His love and freedom for us.
Hope that helps a little!
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My heart longs and faints for your courts...
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Dave Spencer
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Posted: 04/15/2011 at 2:34pm
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Jesus said, "If you love me, obey My commandments". So what happens if a Christian doesn't obey His Commandments? For example, for the past 1700 years, most Christians have not been "doing church" in the manner commanded by Christ in I Corn. ! Christ said that if we are determined to be ignorant about this, then He will leave us in our ignorance!
Have we forgotten about the wood, hay and stubble of our lifes beginning burnt up?
So even though we are not under commendation, there are still consequences connected to our actions. Paul even listed a few lifestyles that can keep any of us out of heaven!
We need to be careful to not get too smug because we can be pruned off just as we were grafted in....
Religion can ruin us but relationship with God through Christ is our salvation. We are just barely being saved.
So how does one maintain a healthy fear of the Lord and still appropriate our position of freedom in Christ? Part of it surely includes responding to the Holy Spirit and the "more sure word", enriched with wisdom from on high.
Blessings in Christ,
Dave
Edited by Dave Spencer on 04/15/2011 at 2:46pm
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Jeffrey Stewart
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Posted: 04/15/2011 at 3:26pm
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I hear you and understand you. I do not advocate "cheap grace". The Grace and Goodness of God should MOTIVATE US to live Holy before Him and seek to please Him with all of our hearts. Not out of fear, but out of appreciation - those who are forgiven much, love much. It is the GOODNESS of God that leads men to repentance as the Scripture says. And you will not see a more awesome display of Goodness than when He takes a person and places ALL THEIR SIN and ALL THEY WERE on Jesus, and then RECREATES THEM within Jesus. We are recreated within God Himself (Jesus), so that indicates how holy He sees us now.
Our standing with Him is never in question, then. But there are children in the household who are trusted with the Mercedes and then there are those who are only trusted to drive the lawn mower. Even when we are standing before Him and judged, it will not be whether we are accepted, but how much WE WILL BE TRUSTED in future areas of authority. The ones who you say are barely saved, are those who's work consisted entirely of hay and stubble, that is not referring to everyone. Those whose works are burnt up "barely make it", but suffer loss, according to the scripture.
The word fear of the Lord is more properly translated reverence and awe for the Lord. If you look up the "fear and trembling" passage in Philippians 2:11-13, the phrase "fear and trembling" is written "reverence and awe" in the Amplified. The better we know Him the more we are in awe of Him and respect Him. However, He wants there to be NO FEAR in our relationship with Him because FEAR is a product of the Fall. This is proven by the phrase "perfect love CASTS OUT all fear", However, there should indeed be a great amount of respect and awe. He wants things in the Church to be as they are in Heaven, and Heaven is a place of great respect and awe for the Lord. Ananias and Sapphira DISRESPECTED the Holy Spirit, and paid the price. People who attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to satan DISRESPECT the Holy Spirit and pay the price. People in churches who QUENCH the Holy Spirit DISRESPECT the Holy Spirit and pay the price.
So the Grace message is not intended to mean we are not accountable. It means that in God's eyes, our standing WITH HIM is settled due to JESUS being HELD ACCOUNTABLE for our past sins and who we are. Its what WE DO WITH THIS GREAT SALVATION that will be assessed.
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Dave Spencer
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Posted: 04/15/2011 at 5:22pm
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Jeffrey,
I'm in agreement 100% in what you posted except the "fear" thing. I recently did a Strong's look-up concerning the words used as "fear" for another secular forum discussion. Here's the result below:
Old Testiment: Strong's Hebrew Lexicon Search Results:
3372 yare' yaw-ray' a primitive root; to fear; morally, to revere; caus.
to frighten:--affright, be (make) afraid, dread(-ful), (put in)
fear(-ful, -fully, -ing), (be had in) reverence(-end), X see, terrible
(act, -ness, thing).
3374 yir'ah yir-aw' feminine of 3373; fear (also used as infinitive);
morally, reverence:--X dreadful, X exceedingly, fear(-fulness).
3373 yare' yaw-ray' from 3372; fearing; morally, reverent:--afraid, fear (-ful).
3375 Yirown yir-ohn' from 3372; fearfulness; Jiron, a place in Pal: -Iron.
4172 mowra' mo-raw' or morat {mo-raw'}; or morah (Psa. 9:20) {mo-raw'};
from 3372; fear; by implication, a fearful thing or deed:--dread, (that
ought to be) fear(-ed), terribleness, terror.
8493 Tiyrya' tee-reh-yaw' probably from 3372; fearful, Tirja, an Israelite:--Tiria.
New Testiment: Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results:
1629. ekphobeo ek-fob-eh'-o from 1537 and 5399; to frighten utterly:--terrify.
1630. ekphobos ek'-fob-os from 1537 and 5401; frightened out of one's wits: sore afraid, exceedingly fear.
1719. emphobos em'-fob-os from 1722 and 5401; in fear, i.e. alarmed:--affrighted, afraid, tremble.
5398. phoberos fob-er-os' from 5401; frightful, i.e. (objectively) formidable:--fearful, terrible.
5399. phobeo fob-eh'-o from 5401; to frighten, i.e. (passively) to be
alarmed; by analogy, to be in awe of, i.e. revere:--be (+ sore) afraid,
fear (exceedingly), reverence.
5400. phobetron fob'-ay-tron neuter of a derivative of 5399; a frightening thing, i.e. terrific portent:--fearful sight.
5401. phobos fob'-os from a primary phebomai (to be put in fear); alarm or fright:--be afraid, + exceedingly, fear, terror.
Here's the conclusion I reached and posted on the other forum:
IMHO, all this data shows that we Christians ought not to treat God as
our buddy; we should remember that He is also King of the Universe. He
is Love. Fear godly Love because Love is out to kill the old man and
create a new one out of anyone who trusts in, relies on, and adheres to
Christ.
Blessings in Christ,
Dave
Edited by Dave Spencer on 04/15/2011 at 5:27pm
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Jeffrey Stewart
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Posted: 04/15/2011 at 5:35pm
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That is very interesting - I greatly respect your viewpoint and research, by the way:
What you say is true - the "old man" has much to fear in the phobos sense. The old man cannot look upon His Face, and live. The old man, being the man that is tied to Adam, and not the man who has been born again, recreated. A non-regenerate man would instantly DIE if He even glimpsed His Face. Even Moses, as "set aside" as he was, was not born again, and COULD NOT see His Face.
Us who are in Christ, Jesus CAN see His Face and live, since God the Father is now OUR FATHER and our tie to Adam was broken when we were born again. We received His Nature, so we CAN see Him and live, but it would completely overwhelm us, to put mildly, if He appears in ALL HIS GLORY. John the Apostle was a PERSONAL FRIEND to Jesus, and fell down as if dead when Jesus appeared in ALL HIS GLORY in the first chapter of Revelations. Jesus can appear in various ways, He appeared as a normal man to the disciples after His resurrection, and ate fish with them on two occasions. And He can appear IN ALL HIS GLORY and overwhelm us.
I think He tones down how He appears, though so He CAN walk with us as friends. Adam walked with Him in the cool of the day until after the Fall. He was not afraid until after the Fall. It says that Enoch walked with God as a Friend. I think the heart of God yearns for us to walk with Him as friends, so He will appear in a way that is less than overwhelming on some occasions.
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