Posted: 02/10/2012 at 10:15am | IP Logged

Hi Debra,

I have something for you. My e-mail sherjon361@peoplepc.com

Many blessings my sister

Posted: 02/10/2012 at 5:22pm | IP Logged

Hi Debra, I posted the following a few years ago. Maybe, it will provide some value or insight. I'm sure that not all of this article will apply to your circumstance. As the old saying goes - take whatever meat you find and throw out the bones! : ) Blessings!

Are many a"proxy"mately wrong?

I have noticed an upswing of many dabbling in a time old Charismatic and Pentecostal  practice that is opening portals for the enemy to attack the body of Christ with legal access. Many are "taking the place" or "sitting in" for another person's needs while others gather around, lay hands upon, and pray for that certain individual in "proxy" of another. This is very dangerous and has caused many to suffer illness and even death.

When we take upon ourselves the right of proxy, or, the desire to stand in or represent another, we have positioned ourselves to legally become that person in the spiritual realm and dynamic. For instance, if I vote for another by proxy, I have legally received the same rights and authority as that person. In essence, at that time in history and for that brief moment of time, I essentially and legally become that person. Now, suppose that I sit for in for a person who has cancer. Although I have a genuine motive and a heart of compassion, I have now taken the spiritually "legal" position of a person with cancer. It is at this time that the enemy of our "body and souls" can inflict much harm to us in our ignorance. God's grace has protected the church through much of this dangerous and manipulating (witchcraft) activity. If you, or your church is engaging in these types of "prayers" – I plead with you to stop immediately and renounce any soul-ties, spirits of division or divorce, and health issues that you may have taken upon yourself in ignorance and misunderstanding through warped traditions. God is faithful to forgive and protect us in what we have failed to understand and see. But now, we are without excuse. I will reiterate that numerous phenomena occur in the church body due to opening spiritual portals of health issues, divorce, addictions and unhealthy soul-ties through the practice of spiritual proxy activities and "prayers."


The Principality Principle:

I cannot find evidence that Jesus took authority or called down spiritual "principalities" in His earthly ministry. With Jesus Christ being our model for ministry and the "Spirit of prophecy", I believe that there are good reasons why we do not witness this form of "authority" that the church has taken upon herself to walk in.

Many prophetic articles that I have read as of late are referencing the immanent return of Christ. Many are sensing an expediting in the time table of history and the soon fulfillment of scripture. The book of Daniel reveals to us the prophetic dynamic and reality of spiritual warfare in reference to principalities. The prayer life of Daniel also opens up understanding and widows into the spirit realm and allows us a glimpse of how history and the lives of mankind may be changed by the correct offensive posture of God's people in spiritual warfare.

We know that the spiritual landscape in the time of Daniel was very similar to what we are experiencing today. Pagan and worldly influences (demons) along with the deception of false religions and prophets were gripping humanity in the claws of deception. Daniel's prophetic response to this understanding would engage a battle in the heavenlies that would change history and the fate of nations.

"Then I set my face toward the Lord God to make request by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes. And I prayed to the Lord my God, and made confession, and said, 'O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments...O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against you." (Daniel 9)

A person called to prophetic ministry is ordained to be a "burden bearer" in his or her response to the prophetic calling. "The burden of the Lord" is vicarious repentance. It is the crying out or prayer of repentance and admission of guilt for the sake of others. (It is not becoming the guilt itself of a person or nation) This seems elementary to many who are walking in the Spirit. However, many are also being deceived into a warped compassion of carrying the "burden" too far and becoming the burden. Walking in the burden of the Lord through prayer, fasting, and vicarious repentance is the "weapon" that the enemy has no answer for. The scriptures state that a glorious angel of the Lord came to Daniel in the midst of fasting and repenting prayers. It was through the prayer of repentance and burden bearing that caused or activated the warfare that would take place between the heavenly hosts led by the arch angel Michael and the principalities that held Persia and much of the middle east in bondage and sin. (The demonic Prince of Persia)

"Then he said to me, 'do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings (demonic principalities) of Persia." (Daniel 10:12-13)

The point that we must recognize is that even the heavenly hosts understand the protocol of authority and the dominions of principalities. The Bible is clear of not only the danger of ridiculing demonic entities (along with Satan), it is clear that we are not to engage principalities with presumption, lack of knowledge, and lack of spiritual authority. Again, we never witness within the scriptures, the taking of authority over principalities by earthly ministries. On the other hand we witness the same means of correct warfare in the ministry of Nehemiah. It was through vicarious repentance (a willingness to accept the burden of blame – like Christ, as the Spirit of prophecy did for us) that empowered Nehemiah to fulfill his destiny and change the course of history. But yet, as the prophetic movement has gained sociable and religious acceptance, many are walking in just the opposite in their spiritual arrogance and self-righteousness.

"And I said: 'I pray, Lord God of heaven, O great and awesome God, You who keep Your covenant and mercy with those who love you and observe Your commandments, please let your ear be attentive and your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of your servant which I pray before you now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and CONFESS THE SINS of the children of Israel which WE have sinned against you. Both my father's house and I have sinned. (Neh. 1:5-6)

The Not So Secret Weapon:

I hope that we all can see the very similar prayers and actions that these two history makers and mighty men of God took up as their weapons of warfare. Destinies of nations and the fate of multitudes were affected, not by the sword and words of self-righteous judgment, but by humble hearts who were willing to be mighty in prayer and repentance for the pulling down of strongholds. It was the sacrificial love and vicarious repentance of these two prophetic men that covered a multitude of sins.

It was upon these prayers of repentance and fasting that the armies of heaven were activated and took up their rightful authority to defeat national and territorial principalities. As the church we have been given all authority over demonic activity that resides upon the earth. Spiritual angels, both light and dark have an authority structure with limited means of activity and power. It is vital that we stay within the realm of God-given authority and exercise wisdom in understanding the weapons that are available and how they are used and stewarded. Spiritual activities and vision can only be discerned by the Spirit. For much too long, the "spirit-filled" church has engaged in Charismatic traditions that are not only unbiblical, but hazardous to our spiritual and natural health.

Posted: 02/10/2012 at 6:00pm | IP Logged

Good evening Debra,   I have to share with you that in no way are you nuts. 

May The Father in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth bless you ever so richly, Amen.

I have been visiting this forum for a number of months and the confirmations of what God is doing has been incredible.  Everyone here is such a blessing.

Posted: 02/12/2012 at 6:25am | IP Logged

Debra - You said "if there is anyone out there who could give you a hand"

Can you email me at arthurmaz@yahoo.com

Posted: 02/12/2012 at 9:41pm | IP Logged

 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,  and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power  which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 

Therefore if we are IN CHRIST, and HE is in us, and we are in the Father, then we are seated in heavenly places with him!!

 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

That means we are already seated above all principality and powers. I f we have our full armor on and if we are ABIDING IN HIM, (he the dwells in the secret place of the most high, abides in the shadow of the almighty ...)then we will see what the fathers does and we will do it.  Jesus said,

AS I AM SO ARE YOU IN THE WORLD. 

  Jesus said, This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.  And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

The prince of this world and his subjects have been defanged, their license to rule has been revoked, lies is all the enemy has to keep his place. HEAVEN IS God's THRONE AND THE EARTH IS HIS FOOTSTOOL, and we are in Christ

Hebrews 2:5-8  What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
   a son of man that you care for him?
You made them a little lower than the angels;
   you crowned them with glory and honor
 and put everything under their feet.    In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.

In Christ we embody a type of Joshua who has been left to  take the promised land, allotted to us. Jericho represents the principalities of the land that God gave Him strategy to take down, we in Christ are as being "In Joshua" the one who saves, taking the promise land, bringing the earth under his authority as we take dominions in His name. If we remain in him than that is what we are called to do. Jesus has triumphed over satan, and we are in Christ, so we also, have triumphed over the prince of this world.

When we first learn of these things is when persecution comes to steal the word from our hearts. The defanged one squawks around kicking up dust to intimidate any time we cross borders and take new territory. And as Joshua was told not to take it all at once, but to drive out the enemy and then occupy it, so we must take ground and occupy, building stongholds of righteousness in the land, and then from there we branch out driving out the darkness (the inhabitants of the land) We do this in realms of prayer and natural works. The same principles we use in  making disciples, or deliverance ministries, missions, or sharing Christ in the market or work place.  Building principle upon principle, precept upon precept, line upon line.  Remember God said to Joshua fear not for I am with you.., nOw for us it is fear not for I am in you.    - dee

Posted: 02/13/2012 at 11:54am | IP Logged

Hi Debra I've wanted to respond to you but I'm glad I've waited...some interesting things posted here. 

I have been involved in some ministry situations when I was in church, & sometimes since I've left, where Holy Spirit has worked through me in different ways.  Once I know He led me to powerfully 'roar' as I ministered to a woman in small group.  She was ministered to for a few hours by Holy Spirit in response.  And I've been like you, asking to ensure it was Father & sometimes rebuking things if I wasn't sure. 

I've not been led lately into much warfare stuff & I have begun to be drawn more to the aspect of praying His blessing & sowing in His Spirit in response to evil, but that is in no way any judgement on where you are in Him.  He knows the heart of each of us & His purpose for us all.  I wanted to encourage you also because I just read an e-book offered by Elijah List last night.  Transported By the Lion of Judah, by Anne Helmer I believe.  During a hospital stay she had experiences with Jesus where He took her (in vision or in spirit she doesn't know) to different churches & gatherings around the world.  In some places like groups meeting in a Buddhist temple he walked around like the majestic Lion He is & roared within them to rout the enemy & make room for His captive people to begin to see Him, to respond to Him.  He also, interestingly, had Anne pray for the dying woman next to her so that she would be able to 'recognize Him'.  Anne had first started to pray He'd have mercy on her & take hre home, but Jesus responded that He couldn't do that until she knew who He was...so pray that her understanding would open to receive Him.  This Anne did, & the woman her who the 'nice young man' beside her was...was he her son?  (Anne's son didn't visit the whole time).  Anne continued to pray & then the woman lapsed into a more pleasant place in her dreams & she died the day after Anne left.  This has also opened my eyes to begin to pray for the eyes of the understanding of others to be opened so that Jesus can reveal Himself to them also.  I know He wants none to be left, that His lprecious & total ove & sacrifice is wasted if anyone is left out.  Sorry to ramble...hope you are able to receive the encouragement I've buried somewhere in here.