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Topic: Need some help with this
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Author
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Janine Nicole
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Joined: 02/14/2007
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Posts: 968
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Posted: 10/15/2013 at 11:37am
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Hello brothers and sisters in the Lord.
I would like to ask for prayer and also that the Lord
will give me some understanding that I can receive. I
want to first say I love the Lord Jesus with all my hear
and soul and want to love Him and praise Him in all
things. But I just cannot get past the presentation of
God in some portions of the bible. I will give an
example, let's take Deuteronomy 28 for example. It
basically says that if you obey the Lord He will love you
and bless, but if you do not obey Him and serve Him
joyfully He will literally make your life a living hell.
Now with that said, I actually do not believe that is the
Lord's heart..maybe it's a problem with the
transaltors..not sure. But I could believe the Lord loves
me unconditionally and wants what's best for me if He
just simply said in His word, "I love you so much and if
you follow me everything around you will be blessed and
filled with life, because I am life. But if you depart
Me, all you will experience is death and this is what it
looks like" However, the bible does not reveal God in
this light. Portions of the bible portrays God as a God
that you better love and worship "or else"!! I am not
looking for the usual explanations..but some real dialect
here. If anyone tells me they can just swallow this stuff
with no questions asked, and still worship God with full
abandon and full trust then I do not think they are being
fully real with themselves or with God. The reality is we
need the Holy Spirit to show us His true heart and I also
have been asking God if some of what is written of Him is
just cloaked by the darkness of the tree of knowledge of
good and evil. For the word even says that light of the
gospel is blinded by the god of this age. Could it be
that the bible is double? God is light and in Him there
is no darkness, yet were some of the writers were
darkened in
the revelation that they wrote down about God?
Edited by Janine Nicole on 10/15/2013 at 11:38am
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Kimberly Fowler
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Joined: 11/09/2012
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Posts: 2917
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Posted: 10/15/2013 at 2:41pm
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Janine, God is so good and the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately when Adam sinned he allowed Satan to have a limited authority on earth. God is wanting us to stay under His covering and be blessed, but when we go out from under His covering, we open up gates for Satan to operate in our lives, and the New Testament says that Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. So part of it is that when we choose to disobey God, Satan immediately seizes the opportunity to mess with our lives and we operate under the curse by our choosing. It says there are only two masters and you will either serve one or the other and God tells us He has set before us life and death but to choose life, so it is in effect our own choice. God has given us free will to choose Him because He wanted us to willingly love Him and serve Him and in return He opens the heavens and pours out of His own abundance. But if we choose to not serve Him, we take ourselves out from under His provision, but that takes us into the dominion of Satan. All of those curses are part of what sin allowed in the earth but which God was willing to spare us from under His blessing. If we refuse His blessing, we come back under the curse. It is our choice. But that is also the love of God that sent Jesus knowing that what is impossible through our own selves was made possible through Christ, so we have the Helper, the Holy Spirit, and we have Jesus mediating on our behalf as well. God has provided every opportunity to give every one a choice, but He has left it up to man to decide under free will. God is a loving God but cannot live with sin so sin was judged at the foundation of the world and is under a curse. Hell was never meant for man, it says it was meant for the devil and his angels, but men in choosing to turn away from God end up choosing the devil and his future simply because there are only two choices...God or the devil. It is impossible to NOT choose, but God in His great love sent His Son, sent His Spirit, gave us great and precious promises and promises to withhold nothing for life and godliness if we will choose Him. But even in loving Him, it says that it is because He loved us first, and even that is something the Holy Spirit helps us with to continue to keep the love going for the Son and the Father. Yes I do see the things in the old Testament that seem harsh, but I also see the understanding of it even in our own society. If we just allowed murderers and rapists and pedophiles to continue in what they were doing, so many more people would be hurt and killed, so even in our own society, we know it has to be dealt with. God is the same way, if He allows sin to go unchecked, more innocent lives would be affected, and as a just judge, He dealt with it in the Old Testament in seemingly harsh ways, yet ironically His reason is one of love, love for the ones who would be spared through the judgment. Anyway, it is possible to worship God with full abandon, because He IS love and His acts, though sometimes not understood by us, are just and are from a perfect God. So if it is hard to love God while not understanding why things happen, there is a level of faith that you do have to step out in and ask the Holy Spirit to help in your faith and also in your love walk. And God is faithful. It's okay to ask God questions, He understands. Everything may not be explained to our satisfaction here, but we will understand it when we get to heaven. But His love IS incomparable and you can trust Him.
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Luke Laffin
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Joined: 09/23/2013
Location: United States
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Posts: 119
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Posted: 10/15/2013 at 8:21pm
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Janine,
I appreciate your honesty to present your struggle and invite prayer and
feedback. The Holy Spirit is stirring this up in you to set you free from an
area of your heart that is struggling to trust Him.
There are many things in God's word that are difficult to understand, but the
key is to do exactly what you are doing, ask Him about it. There are several
things that it is very important NOT to do: Don't limit God to our ability to
explain Him; Don't pick the verses you like/understand/find acceptable and
ignore the ones you don't; Don't waste your time on convoluted explanations
that try to suggest that God's word isn't saying exactly what it is saying.
On the "to do" side of things: Keep in mind that God "is love". Even if we
don't fully understand how He can cause death, destruction, and commanded
His servants to do the same, we can know that His motive will always be
consistent with who He is. Keep in mind that He is also a God of justice.
Righteousness and Justice are the foundations of His throne. The
consequence of Sin is far more serious than any of us have come to know.
Also remember that "All" of God's word points to Jesus Christ.
There is much that can explained through God's word regarding answers to
your questions - The simple truth is that much of what we see in the Old
Testament was given to help us understand the message of Jesus Christ.
The wrath that was demonstrated toward rebellious mankind was the same
wrath for sin that was poured out on Jesus Christ. We need to realize just
how horrible sin is, and how amazing is the love of our God that paid such a
high price so we could have a relationship with Him.
He brought us out of sin so we could live a full life in Him.
Here is a link to an article I wrote about how to live in balance with the
truths, we are forgiven, we have been made righteous, we are called to walk
in righteousness.
http://llaffin.blogspot.com/p/the-balanced-life-of-believer- in-order.html
Please let me know if you have any questions. You are asking very important
questions and the Lord has the answers. He loves you very much!
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Clu Monroe
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Joined: 03/01/2009
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Posts: 162
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Posted: 10/17/2013 at 5:25am
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Hi Janine,
I've been thinking about your post since I read it yesterday. I'm no authority,
I just love the Lord, so I'm hoping how I've been led here will also help...
Basically, not one of us could ever be near to God b/c He is perfect and we
are fallen due to the disobedience so long ago in the Garden... BUT...that is
why John 3:16 and the "rest of the story" is essential, powerful. It is referred
to as the New Testament of the new covenant with man... "The Good News."
Even though we fall short of the glory of the Father, we can still come to
Him through the son - His son - that He sent to take on sin on our behalf.
Hence the new covenant with man - the Gospel, the Good News.
In love sister...
Clu :o)
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MichaelHutchins
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Joined: 02/09/2012
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Posts: 30
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Posted: 10/17/2013 at 6:02am
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Interestingly enough, I've just completed reading the
Bible cover to cover for the second time. I'm trying to
read it though once a year. There's an awful lot in there
that they don't teach in Sunday School!
The Old Covenant is best described by the New Covenant.
Paul writes clearly that the purpose of the Torah was to
create rules to be broken - and introduce sin. The death
of Jesus on the Cross was a once and for all sacrifice
for this sin - the shedding of blood being the core of
Judaistic forgiveness. Therefore, prior to His death,
God's grace did not apply and the only way to God was
through legalistic obedience. Hence the 'or else'
depictions.
The story of Job always gets me. The whole story hinges
on God's righteousness, purely because He is God. He
needs no other explanation, even when the effects of His
choices seem catastrophic.
There's so much more - God trying to kill Moses
immediately after the Burning Bush, Jesus preaching to
those who had died in the Flood between His death and
resurrection and of course, the deaths of Ananias and
Sapphira. It can be hard, but it's all scripture.
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Luke Laffin
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Joined: 09/23/2013
Location: United States
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Posts: 119
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Posted: 10/17/2013 at 10:44am
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Michael - regarding the statement:
"The Old Covenant is best described by the New Covenant.
Paul writes clearly that the purpose of the Torah was to
create rules to be broken - and introduce sin."
The "result" of the Law (Torah) was that it produced death because of the weakness of our flesh, but that was not "why" it was written. Torah (along with all of God's word) was written to point to the Messiah.
It was given as a tutor, it was written to reveal the standard of holiness and that it was unattainable by the flesh, and it was written to train, instruct, demonstrate what God considers righteous behavior. Galatians and Hebrews are good texts to find further clarification as well as Romans 6,7,8.
The Torah reveals much that is relevant to our understanding of what Messiah came to do and the dynamics of our relationship with Him. It also makes it clear that it is only in Christ that we can fulfill the Law (See Romans 8).
I invite any questions that my response may have created.
Blessings!
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Janine Nicole
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Posts: 968
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Posted: 10/17/2013 at 12:07pm
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I want to thank you all to have replied and for your
prayers! Interestingly, the Lord has brought alot help
and insight to me since I posted this. We are all
learning about Him and it will take ages upon ages to do
so!
Ephesians 2
New King James Version (NKJV)
By Grace Through Faith
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and
sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course
of this world, according to the prince of the power of
the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of
disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted
ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the
desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature
children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great
love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in
trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace
you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and
made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ
Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the
exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us
in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved
through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift
of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For
we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good
works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk
in them.
Brought Near by His Blood
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the
flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the
Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that
time you were without Christ, being aliens from the
commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants
of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have
been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Christ Our Peace
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one,
and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15
having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the
law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to
create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making
peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in
one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the
enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were
afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him
we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Whew!! Talk about a download of info that has been poured
into me the past couple of days!! I will do my best to
share that which there are almost no words for!! The
bible is the word of God, it is the foundation. However,
much of what happened in the natural are just a building
block to the truths on which it builds. The reality is
the OT writers were embryonic and darkened in their
understanding of God. It does'nt negate what was written
or need to give us a confusing understanding of who God
is. Jesus Christ IS the revelation of the Father. There
are deep metaphorical meanings that are spiritual
realities of what happened in the natural. Jesus said you
cannot put new wine into old wine skins, lest the old
wine skins break and both are lost. You need to put new
wine into the new wine skin. He is the New wine and the
new wine skin. He was preparing the religious leaders and
people of that day to come out of the old wine skin
understanding of God which was produced by eating from
the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This is the
law..eating of the knowledge of good and evil which did
what? produced death. The strength of the law is sin and
death, eating from this tree separates us from God and
who He truly is. Here something esle, that is mind
blowing!! Someone explained this to me yesterday..when
Moses parted the Red sea and delivered the israelites
from the pharoah and egyptians it was metaphorical of
putting to death the carnal mind/old natire/old adam/old
way of thinking. The egyptians represnted the old nature
that must be put to death. We must pass through the blood
(red sea=blood of Christ) and enter into the promised
land. The wilderness is the sanctification process,
crucifying the flesh, old nature. The reality is that we
did this to ourselves..God is love and in Him there is no
darkness. If we see Him through the eyes of the flesh,
the eyes of sin law and death we will see a wrathful God
for our minds are darkened and we are eating of the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil. But in Christ we see
the glory of God and we see God for who He really is and
how He really sees us. The things that are type and
shadows are no longer to be taken literal. We are in the
day of the new wine and new wine skin we must press on to
things of maturity. As shared above this was a tutor to
point us to Christ. Wow! guys, this story is much, much
bigger than any of us can really realize!! What the
Father is showing me is that all mankind were gentiles,
all in adam die. He then chose people groups to break it
down for us. In Him there is no jew and gentile we are
all one in Christ. That is because this journey from
eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, to
eating from the tree of life is a journey every human
must take!
Bethany, I want to specifically thank you for posting
that link...INCREDIBLY helpful and led me to some very
interesting insights!!
Luke, i also thank you for what you shared..actually
again to everyone, God used all of this to point me to a
much deeper revelation of who He is and what He is doing.
God is love and in Him is no darkness is powerful more
than we can imagine!!
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Gayle Getz
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Joined: 02/03/2005
Location: United States
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Posted: 10/17/2013 at 12:46pm
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Thanks Janine...I just got blessed cuz you, my precious Sister got blessed! As I say to those coming to this "OH banqueting table", you'll get blessed reading & posting here as well as 1,000's of folks who come here to read, may never post, but they are gettin' feed from this here "OH banqueting table." GLORY TO GOD! TY JESUS-OUR LORD, OUR KING, OUR EVERYTHING!!! \o/\o/\o/ Love you ALL Be blessed and pass it on!
Edited by Gayle Getz on 10/17/2013 at 12:47pm
__________________
Shalom-nothing missing, nothing broken-Gayle
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Janine Nicole
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Posts: 968
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Posted: 10/17/2013 at 2:15pm
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Amen my sisters!!! He did'nt leave us in our "stinking
thinking" about Him, others or ourselves!! Many Blessings
to you all!!!
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